Vintage Road Race Digest #31-40
VintRR-digest Tuesday, May 13 1997 Volume 01 : Number 031
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:45:57 -0400
From: "Michael Green"
Subject: Re: VintRR Summit AHRMA report (lap times)
Dave Roper was the fastest of the vintage bikes and turned 1:31's on the TO BSA
Triple. Todd Henning was never pushed and ran ~1:35's. 250s, 350's run about
1:39. Chris Pyles ran 1:30's on his RS125. Fastest non-vintage was the T595 of
Michael Gage at 1:23, faster than any 916 at the event.
New pavement from T2 to T5 has helped lap times at Summit.
- --
Michael D. Green Email: green@hks.com
Hibbitt, Karlsson & Sorensen, Inc
1080 Main Street, Pawtucket, RI 02860
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:51:44 -0400
From: gwt@magicnet.net (George Taylor)
Subject: VintRR Krober Ignition
Does anyone know of any information sorces covering
Krober ignition systems from the late '60s early '70s.
These ignitions were made in Germany and most
of the Yam guys used them to replace the points in their TR TDs.
They were solid state systems, I badly need a schematic for one of
these systems.
Thanks, George
George Taylor
#1 of 2Old Racing
gwt@magicnet.net
AHRMA&CCS#637 AMA#141
TR2B-TR3-TD3
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:56:48 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR Krober Ignition
> Does anyone know of any information sorces covering
> Krober ignition systems from the late '60s early '70s.
> These ignitions were made in Germany and most
> of the Yam guys used them to replace the points in their TR TDs.
> They were solid state systems, I badly need a schematic for one of
> these systems.
> Thanks, George
Hello George,
I recently bought a new Krober tach from England. The folks who make
the RITA ignitions got it for me, but they said that the fellow they
bought it from can supply new tachs or repair old ones. I think the
Krober ignitions are still available too. Have you looked through
the last few issues of Classic Racer to see if you could find an ad?
I think that Bley Engineering might have been selling the Krobers at
one time here in the US.
If no one else comes up with a source let me know and I'll fax
Mistral and see if they can tell me of someone handling the Krobers
in the UK.
Cheers
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:05:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Pick
Subject: Re: VintRR Krober Ignition
On Tue 13 May, Michael Moore wrote:
> > Does anyone know of any information sorces covering
> > Krober ignition systems from the late '60s early '70s.
> > These ignitions were made in Germany and most
> > of the Yam guys used them to replace the points in their TR TDs.
> > They were solid state systems, I badly need a schematic for one of
> > these systems.
> > Thanks, George
>
> Hello George,
>
> I recently bought a new Krober tach from England. The folks who make
> the RITA ignitions got it for me, but they said that the fellow they
> bought it from can supply new tachs or repair old ones. I think the
> Krober ignitions are still available too. Have you looked through
> the last few issues of Classic Racer to see if you could find an ad?
> I think that Bley Engineering might have been selling the Krobers at
> one time here in the US.
>
> If no one else comes up with a source let me know and I'll fax
> Mistral and see if they can tell me of someone handling the Krobers
> in the UK.
Well, a small world. In partnership with the previous importer, I
handle the import of the Krober Tachometer into the UK. Peter
Champness still handles repairs, and all the ignition side of the
business.
Peter is not e-mail of fax connected, so if I can be of assistance
please let me know.
- --
Philip Pick, Triple Cycles, 228 Henley Road Ilford Essex IG1 2TW England
Telephone +44 181 478 4807 Fax +44 181 478 4807
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:57:00 -0400
From: John.Martin@fluordaniel.com
Subject: VintRR Commando/Featherbed
Having finally got the 750cc Commando engined Featherbed vintage racer
finished (only an 8 year gesticulation period) & competed at PIR in
the SOTP event, I have the following observations to state.
The Featherbed handling is far superior to the Commando, (even with a
Norvil headsteady).
The vibration level is nearly intolerable at 6500/7000 after the
length of the drag strip front straight. ( The engine still has the
Commando balance factor of 52%, not the 84%[?] of the Atlas).
The 90 deg crankshaft seem even more inviting now, the best of both
worlds.
I hope these comments don't start a flame war. Tee Hee.
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #31
***************************
VintRR-digest Wednesday, May 14 1997 Volume 01 : Number 032
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 14:24:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike J Andrusiewicz
Subject: VintRR Re: Commando/Featherbed
I have a 750 commando motor in a featherbed wideline frame. The motor
was rebalanced at 74% prior to buildup. I am running the bike in its 2nd
rode season, and last week ran the RPM up to 6800 RPM. Yes it was abit
buzzy, but not much more than a standard Triumph twin in the same RPM band.
You will never get it to run as smooth as an isollastic setup, but hey,
its a rigid mount!. I am not at all displeased with the motor performance!
Take Care,
Mike A
On Mon, 12 May 1997 John.Martin@fluordaniel.com wrote:
> Having finally got the 750cc Commando engined Featherbed vintage racer
> finished (only an 8 year gesticulation period) & competed at PIR in
> the SOTP event, I have the following observations to state.
>
> The Featherbed handling is far superior to the Commando, (even with a
> Norvil headsteady).
>
> The vibration level is nearly intolerable at 6500/7000 after the
> length of the drag strip front straight. ( The engine still has the
> Commando balance factor of 52%, not the 84%[?] of the Atlas).
>
> The 90 deg crankshaft seem even more inviting now, the best of both
> worlds.
>
> I hope these comments don't start a flame war. Tee Hee.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:10:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hnry@aol.com
Subject: VintRR H-D/Aermacchi 4-stroke singles
Hello,
I'm all over the place: What to ride, what to ride?
Any pros or cons regarding (or has anyone even seen) the Aermacchi 350cc
horizontal four stroke single as a vintage racer for the beginner?
(CB350 route is becoming obscured by its own beauty: Commonplace)
Anyone have the means (low urgency) to transport two bikes from north central
CA to mid-Atlantic coast?
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:43:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: "\"Colin R. Sharpe\""
Subject: VintRR Re: Commando/Featherbed
On Mon, 12 May 1997 John.Martin@fluordaniel.com wrote:
> The vibration level is nearly intolerable at 6500/7000 after the
> length of the drag strip front straight. ( The engine still has the
> Commando balance factor of 52%, not the 84%[?] of the Atlas).
>
Go for a 70% balance factor a'la 650ss. This recommendation is from John
Hudson of the NOC. The 52% balance factor will likely break everything on
the bike if you leave it that way. The best thing would be to have the
crank dynamically balanced for smooth running at the speed you want to use
it most. This may vary from the 70% quoted. If you can't afford that,
then balance it statically. Whatever you do, DO IT NOW!
English.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:40:03 -0400
From: Chris Stein
Subject: Re: VintRR H-D/Aermacchi 4-stroke singles
Hnry@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I'm all over the place: What to ride, what to ride?
> Any pros or cons regarding (or has anyone even seen) the Aermacchi 350cc
> horizontal four stroke single as a vintage racer for the beginner?
> (CB350 route is becoming obscured by its own beauty: Commonplace)
> Anyone have the means (low urgency) to transport two bikes from north central
> CA to mid-Atlantic coast?
> Scott
They're very cool motorcycles. Unfortunately, I understand that parts
are a real ball-buster to find.
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 06:06:17 -0400
From: tharris@nornet.on.ca (Tim Harris )
Subject: VintRR CB 350 Fork Oil
What type of oil is used in the forks????
I have a clymers manual....
In it they tell me the quantities of fork oil....
But not the grade.....
Thanks
Tim Harris Tim's Euro-Passions http://www.nornet.on.ca/~tharris/
1972 Ducati 750 GT Imola Cafe Racer
1975 Ducati 860 GT
1985 BMW K75
1988 Yamaha 250cc Virago "Route 66"
1990 Honda Hawk GT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:36:21 +0930 (CST)
From: millett@camtech.net.au (F + A Millett)
Subject: VintRR Benelli Motors etc..
Hi all!
If anyone is interested in Benelli motors, I have found a source - well,
really a goldmine!!
I have recently bought a 1968 Duke 350 Desmo single racer and the fellow who
sold it to me currently has a hoard of spares - including braces of _NEW_
Benelli motors. And yes folks, these items are for sale.
Here is his stock list ...
A lot have been in storage for 30 years and suit classic and BEARS racing.
Benelli Motors
New 125, 200, 250cc Barracudas AUD$900 (approx US$680)
New 250, 350cc Mojaves AUD$850 (Includes used motor) (approx US$650)
New 125cc 2-strokes AUD$450 (approx US$340)
Used 250, 350 Mojaves AUD$220 (approx US$170)
Prices do not include postage ex-Adelaide, Australia (but hell, they come in
a Schwarzenegger of a box!!)
He also has classic pattern fibreglass tanks, seat bases and dolphin fairings.
He also has a genuine factory Moto Parilla fuel tank in a box that looked
like it had come from the attic. His garage is a mine!
Unfortunately, the fellow does not have email. If anyone is interested in
any of the abovelisted stock - please let me know and I can forward a
telephone number to him so he can call you directly! Conversely, you can
call him direct ...
Bob Eldridge
Int. Ph : +618 8331-9853 [GMT +8.5hrs]
Oz : (08) 8331-9853
Regards,
Alec.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:14:04 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR Benelli Motors etc..
> Benelli Motors
> New 125, 200, 250cc Barracudas AUD$900 (approx US$680)
I'd take all of these but they are too darned far away to be
practical to ship at a reasonable cost.
Alec sent me a photo of the guy's garage - lots of stuff and some
neat bikes too. Alec is going to try and get a picture of the
fellows trick framed 250 race bike sans bodywork so I can add it to
the web site.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #32
***************************
VintRR-digest Friday, May 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 033
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:58:16 -0700
From: DONALD MACPHAIL
Subject: Re: VintRR CB 350 Fork Oil
Tim Harris wrote:
>
> What type of oil is used in the forks????
> I have a clymers manual....
> In it they tell me the quantities of fork oil....
> But not the grade.....
>
> Thanks
>
> Tim Harris Tim's Euro-Passions http://www.nornet.on.ca/~tharris/
> 1972 Ducati 750 GT Imola Cafe Racer
> 1975 Ducati 860 GT
> 1985 BMW K75
> 1988 Yamaha 250cc Virago "Route 66"
> 1990 Honda Hawk GT
which type of fork? internal or external spring- I cannot sssspeak for
(I stammer) X type - internal -late 5.5" tubes collapsed springs out
15wt
@175 lb rider - (race track) - keep dropping the clamps down the tubes
until it gets too twitchy at speed - @.5 - .75" works nice -my opinion-
YOUR mileage may vary don
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:36:00 -0400
From: gwt@magicnet.net (George Taylor)
Subject: Re: VintRR Krober Ignition
>> Does anyone know of any information sorces covering
>> Krober ignition systems from the late '60s early '70s.
>> These ignitions were made in Germany and most
>> of the Yam guys used them to replace the points in their TR TDs.
>> They were solid state systems, I badly need a schematic for one of
>> these systems.
>> Thanks, George
>
>Hello George,
>
>I recently bought a new Krober tach from England. The folks who make
>the RITA ignitions got it for me, but they said that the fellow they
>bought it from can supply new tachs or repair old ones. I think the
>Krober ignitions are still available too. Have you looked through
>the last few issues of Classic Racer to see if you could find an ad?
>I think that Bley Engineering might have been selling the Krobers at
>one time here in the US.
>
>If no one else comes up with a source let me know and I'll fax
>Mistral and see if they can tell me of someone handling the Krobers
>in the UK.
========================================================
Thanks Michael,
I was able to find the data needed from one of our 'vintage rr"
guys.
George
====================================================================
>
>Cheers
>Michael
>Michael Moore
>Euro Spares, SF CA
>Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
>Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for
constructors"
>http://www.eurospares.com
>AFM/AHRMA #364
>
>
George Taylor
#1 of 2Old Racing
gwt@magicnet.net
AHRMA&CCS#637 AMA#141
TR2B-TR3-TD3
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:56:40 +0100
From: Mike Dearman
Subject: VintRR Re: 350 Honda Pic
Tim Harris wrote:
> Also does anybody have a scanned image of a typical
> CB 350 racer decked out in Period 1 fasion they could e-mail me....
Sorry for the late reply, but if you still want a pic try my site under
classic racers http://freespace.virgin.net/mike.dearman/home.htm
Mike Dearman
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 07:51:02 +0930 (CST)
From: millett@camtech.net.au (F + A Millett)
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: 350 Honda Pic
>Tim Harris wrote:
>
>> Also does anybody have a scanned image of a typical
>> CB 350 racer decked out in Period 1 fasion they could e-mail me....
>
>Sorry for the late reply, but if you still want a pic try my site under
>classic racers http://freespace.virgin.net/mike.dearman/home.htm
>
>
>Mike Dearman
>
Hi Mike.
I've just tried this URL (in fact I tried all the links) and get bad object
requests with not files to be found on your server.
Problems??? I'd love to see the CB!
Alec.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:50:33 -0400
From: tharris@nornet.on.ca (Tim Harris )
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: 350 Honda Pic
>
>Sorry for the late reply, but if you still want a pic try my site under
>classic racers http://freespace.virgin.net/mike.dearman/home.htm
>
>
>Mike Dearman
There seems to be a problem with your links to your other pages...
Tim Harris Tim's Euro-Passions http://www.nornet.on.ca/~tharris/
1972 Ducati 750 GT Imola Cafe Racer
1975 Ducati 860 GT
1985 BMW K75
1988 Yamaha 250cc Virago "Route 66"
1990 Honda Hawk GT
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #33
***************************
VintRR-digest Sunday, May 18 1997 Volume 01 : Number 034
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:50:05 AST
From: "Darrell Hingley"
Subject: VintRR answers and questions
Thanks, everyone who sent me info relating to big bore pistons
which might work in a Honda CB-400F. From what I can see a
CB-125S piston may work well. It has the size(56mm) pin bore(15mm)
and as well as a domed crown which will help in the squish zone. I
found an old article from England which says they used pistons from a
CB-125J, is a j model the same as an s model?.
I have just finished rebuilding the front end of my 400 racer and
am now at the point of setting the torque on the tapered roller
bearings on the steering stem. Does anyone know the the true and
right way to set the proper torque on these bearings. My bike came
with them already installed and I have heard three different ways of
setting these bearings up. One way I was told was to tighten the lock
nut until the front end is stiff to move back and forth, then back
off just a little, and that is it. Is this a true statement or do
you need to actually need to torque the bearings to a set foot lbs.
As a last note we are having our annual vintage weekend at the end
of July. It will be three days of nothing but old bikes, good food
and more bikes. Our track is one of the only club owned tracks in
North America. It has been in existance for over 20 years. The track
it self is called the roller coaster, 1.5 miles long and the elevs.
change close to 100' from the top of corner 11 to the bottom of
corner 5. All the racers from the states love the track and is noted
as being one of the hardest to beat. And with the great exchange rate
racers from the States enjoy (1.35 can for 1.00 u/s) it makes for
a great and cheap race weekend. If you would lick some more info send
let me know and I will do what I can. Darrell #62 vintage AMCRA
Nova Scotia Canada. The land of the Screaming Fours
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 23:30:31 -0700
From: DONALD MACPHAIL
Subject: Re: VintRR answers and questions
Darrell Hingley wrote:
>
> e we are having our annual vintage weekend at the end
> of July. It will be three days of nothing but old bikes, good food
> and more bikes. Our track is one of the only club owned tracks in
> North America. It has been in existance for over 20 years. The track
> it self is called the roller coaster, 1.5 miles long and the elevs.
> change close to 100' from the top of corner 11 to the bottom of
> corner 5. All the racers from the states love the track and is noted
> as being one of the hardest to beat. And with the great exchange rate
> racers from the States enjoy (1.35 can for 1.00 u/s) it makes for
> a great and cheap race weekend. If you would lick some more info send
> let me know and I will do what I can. Darrell #62 vintage AMCRA
> Nova Scotia Canada. The land of the Screaming Fours
I presume that we Canadians are also welcome? although you don't seem
to be offering us any special rate of exchange on the Ontario loonie.
We ,that would be the familial we; are hoping to attend this year
and if this tired old patch job engine stops fighting me I will be abke
to ride on your coaster. don -race am 27 CB350 honda GS 1000 - for
club cup
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 11:01:09 -0400
From: gwt@magicnet.net (George Taylor)
Subject: VintRR RZ pipes
Hi everyone!
I have a friend who is not online but owns an RZ('85). It's stock
but he would like to find a set of pipes for it.I offered to post
an enquiry and give him the results.
If you have pipes to sell or know someone who does, let me know.
If your selling,please include phone # and I can have my friend call
you direct.
Thanks, George
George Taylor
#1 of 2Old Racing
gwt@magicnet.net
AHRMA&CCS#637 AMA#141
TR2B-TR3-TD3
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 10:08:22 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR answers and questions
> bearings on the steering stem. Does anyone know the the true and
> right way to set the proper torque on these bearings. My bike came
> with them already installed and I have heard three different ways of
> setting these bearings up. One way I was told was to tighten the lock
> nut until the front end is stiff to move back and forth, then back
> off just a little, and that is it. Is this a true statement or do
> you need to actually need to torque the bearings to a set foot lbs.
Hello Darrell,
That is the way I set mine. Tapered roller bearings should be run
with a slight preload, but you also don't want any friction in the
steering. The same holds true for tapered roller bearings in the
swingarm.
Ideally, you'd have a perfectly sized spacer between the cones so
that you can't overtighten the bearings. I do this on the swingarm
bearings (as you generally want a pretty good torque on the nut), but
haven't done it on the steering head bearings. Then again, the head
bearings are much bigger than the swing arm bearings, and it may not
be as critical.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #34
***************************
VintRR-digest Monday, May 19 1997 Volume 01 : Number 035
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:28:10 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintRR Calling all Motobi owners
I've decided that, presuming I can get the Australia->San Francisco
freight to a reasonable figure, I'm going to buy the flat-single
Motobi engines that Alec Millett's friend has for sale.
Does anyone have experience with these engines (also known as
Benelli's - Guiseppe Benelli went his own way for several decades
and then his company was reabsorbed into the family business)? I've
got a Cycle World article on a race kit equipped 200 or 250, a Bob
Greene/Motorcyclist road test of an early 70s Barracuda, and some
mention in Mick Walker's books. I think there was also a short
article in one of the latest "Classic Something" magazines.
Now lets see, where do these engines start their project numbers?
I've got to remember to count in the Husky 510 chassis I bought
yesterday (anyone got a Husky 4-stroke engine for sale?). I think
I'm now up to the mid-20s on project numbers, but then, who dares to
count?!
If you've got some knowledge to share please post it to the list.
Thanks,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:35:56 -0400
From: Ellis Holman
Subject: VintRR Pistons
Does anyone have a phone number / address for ForgedTrue or Venolia.
I've a couple of piston configurations I need to see if I can have
forged/cast. Thanks! Ellis
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:21:37 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR Pistons
Hello Ellis,
JE Pistons 714-898-9763 (Huntington Beach CA)
Venolia Pistons 213-636-9329 (Long Beach CA)
Arias Pistons 310-532-9737 (Gardena CA)
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:01:01 -0400
From: Ellis Holman
Subject: Re: VintRR Pistons
Michael Moore wrote:
>
> Hello Ellis,
>
> JE Pistons 714-898-9763 (Huntington Beach CA)
> Venolia Pistons 213-636-9329 (Long Beach CA)
> Arias Pistons 310-532-9737 (Gardena CA)
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
> Michael Moore
> Euro Spares, SF CA
> Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
> Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
> http://www.eurospares.com
> AFM/AHRMA #364
>
>
Thanks Michael! Any thoughts on which of the three might do a better job
of a custom pair of pistons. What I'm looking for is a 2 ring/60mm
pentroof piston, matched up the the CB77 wrist pin and deck height. I
cast about and didn't find anything that really matched up.
Ellis
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:26:29 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR Pistons
> Thanks Michael! Any thoughts on which of the three might do a better job
> of a custom pair of pistons. What I'm looking for is a 2 ring/60mm
> pentroof piston, matched up the the CB77 wrist pin and deck height. I
> cast about and didn't find anything that really matched up.
>
> Ellis
Hello Ellis,
I think that when Craig ordered some special big-bore pistons for my
Trident that he got them from Arias, so that might be a good place to
start. I've heard that Wiseco wants a 40-50 piston minimum on
specials, but Arias and some of the others will do one-offs.
Before you get too carried away in ordering domes on the piston look
at the head and see if you can get more compression by adding weld
to it instead.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:20:58 -0600
From: MBJONST0@wcc.com
Subject: VintRR Re: Commando/Featherbed
>Having finally got the 750cc Commando engined Featherbed vintage
>racer finished (only an 8 year gesticulation period) & competed at
>PIR in the SOTP event,
snip
Could anyone tell me how to get onto the vintage-roadrace list, it would
be much appreciated
Mat Jonston
MBJONST0@wcc.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 20:35:01 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintRR More pictures
I've just added some shots sent to me by Alec Millett in Australia of
some 125 and 250cc Motobi four-stroke single roadracers, and a 125
Benelli two-stroke single roadracer. The 250 Motobi has a custom
frame on it. The Motobi bikes are horizontal singles like the Guzzi
and Aermacchi. They are in the vintage roadracers section of the
graphics page on my web site.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #35
***************************
VintRR-digest Wednesday, May 21 1997 Volume 01 : Number 036
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:09:25 -0400
From: "Michael Green"
Subject: Re: VintRR More pictures
Some pictures of the US Motobi team at the the 1965 USGP at Daytona appeared
with my story of the event in Roadracing World. The pictures came from Abbot
Lahti who rode for Motobi along with Jess Thomas and at least one other rider.
Lahti is still an active racer with USCRA.
- --
Michael D. Green Email: green@hks.com
Hibbitt, Karlsson & Sorensen, Inc
1080 Main Street, Pawtucket, RI 02860
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:35:37 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR More pictures
> Some pictures of the US Motobi team at the the 1965 USGP at Daytona appeared
> with my story of the event in Roadracing World. The pictures came from Abbot
> Lahti who rode for Motobi along with Jess Thomas and at least one other rider.
> Lahti is still an active racer with USCRA.
Hello Michael,
Thanks for the note. I should still have that issue around, so I'll
rummage through the piles and see if it will fall semi-readily to
hand. If they seem tres cool I'll get back to you and see about
getting contact info for the pictures' owner.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 19:34:24 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR More pictures
> Some pictures of the US Motobi team at the the 1965 USGP at Daytona appeared
> with my story of the event in Roadracing World. The pictures came from Abbot
> Lahti who rode for Motobi along with Jess Thomas and at least one other rider.
> Lahti is still an active racer with USCRA.
Hello Michael,
I found the 12/94 article but I didn't see any MotoBi pictures. Was
there more than one installment?
I did run across the profile of Ian Gunn. That was done before I got
online, so it was fun to read it now that I know of him.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:09:37 -0400
From: Jeff Bean
Subject: [none]
subscribe
bucbean@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 9:12:00 -0400
From: John.Martin@fluordaniel.com
Subject: VintRR GP & WSB Races
Is anybody recording the GP & WSB races that are being shown on TV, as
I would like to get a copy of them. In the Great White North (aka
Canada) our national sports (Joke) channel TSN stopped showing
motorcycle racing 3 years ago, & I have had to resort to buying the
Duke season round-ups each year to get my kicks. Although good I miss
the hour long episodes, can anybody help?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:12:53 +0100
From: John Woodgate
Subject: VintRR Paul Dunstall
Is there anybody out there still racing Dunstall prepared Nortons?
For those of you who are too young to remember, Paul Dunstall came to
the public attention when he started producing some very fast Nortons.
His machines were raced from about 1960 to 1971.
Not only did he produce Norton based machines, but he also used Triumph,
BSA, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawaski machines as a base. After Norton
went under he started building up relationships with the Japanese
Factories in the UK. He built a Suzuki capable of 150 MPH in 'standard'
form.
I am trying to build up a record of all the Dunstall based machines
still around. You can see what I have found so far, together with the
race successes, model specs, etc at my Dunstall web page.
http://www.meertech.demon.co.uk/dunstall/index.html
Dunstall ceased tradin in the early 80s.
John W
- --
.---------------------. .-------------------------------------------.
|d88888P / Y88888b|-| Name: John Woodgate |-.
|88888P /_ _ Y88888| | Internet: johnw@bri.hp.com | |
|88888 / / / / 88888| | Phone: +44 117 922 9583 | |
|88888 / / /_/ 88888| | Org: Hewlett-Packard Ltd, Bristol | |
|88888b / d88888| |Disclaimer: Opinions viewed are my own and | |
|?88888b / d88888P| | do not represent HP in any way | |
`---------------------' `-------------------------------------------' |
`----------------------' `-------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #36
***************************
VintRR-digest Wednesday, May 21 1997 Volume 01 : Number 037
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:05:35 +0100
From: Skip Schloss
Subject: VintRR Re: Triumph
Folks,
OK, got a bike for sale someone might be interested in.
This was a customer's bike, he's getting out of the sport for reasons
having to do with domestic tranquility, and has me to sell the bike for
him.
It's a Rob North replica Triumph triple, probably with the Harris frame,
ex-Daytona, fresh Big D engine, all the pieces (short and long track
tanks and bodywork). The bike is in excellent condition, run only for
breakin and adjustment since engine rebuild, not run in 4 or 5 years. I
am prepared to fully prep the bike (I think the carbs should be gone
through, brakes bled, that sort of thing) or that can be up to a buyer.
Paint is in original Triumph blue/white. Bike shows no evidence of ever
having been down. Rubber is fresh, not showing age. Everything is
professionally done, safety wired, etc. No hack work evident.
Comes with some spares, stand, etc. This bike could be race-ready in a
few hours labort and would doubltess give someone a screamer of a ride.
I'll have pictures on a web page here pretty soon. Write or call if
there's interest...
Skip Schloss
Flying Fish Motorcycles
Whitefish, MT
406-862-6895
skippy@cyberport.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:09:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wrrduckman@aol.com
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: Triumph
In a message dated 97-05-21 14:01:35 EDT, you write:
<< It's a Rob North replica Triumph triple, probably with the Harris frame,
ex-Daytona, fresh Big D engine, all the pieces (short and long track
tanks and bodywork). The bike is in excellent condition, run only for
breakin and adjustment since engine rebuild, not run in 4 or 5 years. I
am prepared to fully prep the bike (I think the carbs should be gone
through, brakes bled, that sort of thing) or that can be up to a buyer.
>>
I am very interested ingetting a Trident. I was looking for something to
possibly do some vintage racing with and to also be able to use it occasionly
on the street. Is this bike for me? I had a couple triples many years ago
when they were alsmost new but have not followed motorcycleing for a long
time so I am not familiar with the Rob North replica or the Big D engine.
Please explain. I do know of Harris frames and know they are good. The carbs
and brakes etc I can take care of myself as I am constantly tearing my Ducati
apart and putting it together. What is the price of this bike? I assume MT
stands for Montana..............
Warren Rhen
New Freedom Pa.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:22:00 -0400
From: John.Martin@fluordaniel.com
Subject: VintRR 920cc Norton
Anybody had any success/failures (with a Norton surely not!) with Fair
Spares 920cc Norton kit or somebody else's?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:38:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rdparts4u@aol.com
Subject: Re: VintRR Paul Dunstall
John,
Fwiw I have a large supply of NOS Dunstall goodies for Kaw triples & GS1000S
Suzukis.
Doug
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:53:04 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR Paul Dunstall
> Is there anybody out there still racing Dunstall prepared Nortons?
> http://www.meertech.demon.co.uk/dunstall/index.html
> John W
Hello John,
I just took a quick look at your page - I'll add you as the "Dunstall
Owners Register" contact on the club links page on my web site soon.
The only Norton I've owned was a 750 Dunstall Atlas that came and
went in the same set of boxes. It was seriously dismantled, and the
new owner told me the only thing he'd ever worked on before was a
rototiller, and that didn't run when he was done with it. He sounded
like just the guy to put the Atlas back together.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:28:57 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: Triumph
> time so I am not familiar with the Rob North replica or the Big D engine.
Hello Warren,
Rob North built the original frames for the Triumph/BSA 750 triple
road racers (these were the "High" frames, with a high steering head
position), and then the later "Low" headstock frames. The jigs for
the frames went through several hands before arriving with Miles
Engineering in the UK, who I think have made several hundred frames
by now. North still builds the occasional frame, and there have been
copies made by others. I think that Fred Mork's BSA that Dave
Russell rides uses a C&J replica of the North frame, a batch of which
were commissioned by the US Triumph importer or distributors. The
only Harris triple frames I know of are the ones sold by Norman Hyde
as the Harrier. It is similar in general design to the North frame,
but might not be vintage legal.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:58:38 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintRR CR216 article and Dunstall registry
> Tell us about the performance of your CB160, Michael!
>Thanks, Bill Silver
Being the obliging soul that I am, I've just added an article to my
web site on my CR216 Honda vintage road racer.
In addition, I've added a link to the Dunstall Owners' Register home
page to the club links page.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:24:57 -0700
From: DONALD MACPHAIL
Subject: Re: VintRR Paul Dunstall
Rdparts4u@aol.com wrote:
>
> John,
> Fwiw I have a large supply of NOS Dunstall goodies for Kaw triples & GS1000S
say GS1000 4 times quickly & then please e mail me a list
of said parts - thank you in advance - don
> Suzukis.
> Doug
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #37
***************************
VintRR-digest Friday, May 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 038
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:34:50 +0200
From: Dennis Harris Nielsen
Subject: VintRR Norton Crank!
Hello there.
I was offered to buy a Norton Crank for my T140. It has been
fitted with special Carillo con rods to fit the T140 with standard
pistons, giving 7mm (or was it 9mm) longer stroke and 11:1 compression
ratio. It has been dynamically balanced with the Triumph pistons. Mods
needed in the crank case include removing a little to make the crank
spin freely, and the fitting of a roller baring. Total displacement app.
800 cc. Has any one tried this before? What should this cost? Is there a
notable increase in power? Any advice would be appreciated.
Ride Safe
Dennis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:44:09 +0100
From: Skip Schloss
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: Triumph
Warren,
Thanks for your note...
This bike is absolutely NOT a street bike...full race. The Rob North
triples were initially commissioned by the Triumph factory to win
Daytona, which they did, for...I believe it was three years. This is a
serious, no nonsense race bike that is not for the faint of heart,
either mechanically or in terms of holding on to it!!
Still interested?
Skip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:11:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wrrduckman@aol.com
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: Triumph
In a message dated 97-05-22 09:43:14 EDT, you write:
<< Still interested? >>
Yes. How much?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:33:25 +0100
From: Skip Schloss
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: Triumph
Warren:
The current owner paid $10,000. He is accepting offers. Cash is not so
much the issue as seeing the bike go to a "good home" where it will
either be exhibited or raced, but not auctioned. The current owner also
wants "right of refusal" if the bike goes back up for sale in the
future....that is, if you sell it, it gets offered to him first.
It comes with two sets of bodywork, short track and long track.
I can pull together pictures in the next day or two. (By the way, I
believe Mike Moore is correct about this being a Miles Engineering
frame, not Harris. The engine was built by the famous "Big D Cycle"
shop in Dallas...these people have built various Land Speed Record and
significantly successful road race bikes and can be referenced regarding
this particular engine.)
Skip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:32:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wrrduckman@aol.com
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: Triumph
Michael; Thanks for the info on the trident. I didn't mean to clutter your
list with that but I just didn't look at the address to see where I was
replying to. Do you have any idea what a ballpark figure would be for that
bike. I guess what the traffic will bare is the standard reply. I would
really like to have it but I don't have a clue what its worth.
By the way several months ago I asked you about Moto Guzzi lifters and
whether they had any taper on the bottom to rotate them. Well just for your
information file they are not tapered on the bottom and checked out between
57-67 on a rockwell C scale and that seems to be the whole way through as I
had to remove about .020 on one of them with a swing grinder to get all the
pit marks out. Actually case hardening a thin wall part like a lifter will
usually harden the piece the whole way through. Great list, thank you for
taking the time to care.
Warren Rhen
93 750 SS
80 1000 SP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:12:23 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: Triumph
> Michael; Thanks for the info on the trident. I didn't mean to clutter your
> list with that but I just didn't look at the address to see where I was
> replying to. Do you have any idea what a ballpark figure would be for that
> bike. I guess what the traffic will bare is the standard reply. I would
> really like to have it but I don't have a clue what its worth.
> Warren Rhen
Hello Warren,
If the bike is as nice as Skip says than I'm sure that $8-10K is
certainly within the ball park, and depending on
condition/specification it might even be low. A triple is NOT a
cheap race engine to build or to maintain (or fix when if it blows).
I just took a look through the last few Classic Racer magazines, but
couldn't find a single North-style Triple advertised. Perhaps Phil
Pick has a price at hand for what he'd charge to build a new racer
from the ground up.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:21:05 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintRR Another reason why bikes are better than cars
I ran across this poem by an anonymous UK rider today:
Oh damsel fair, beware the car
Where seating space is wider far
Than any man of reason needs
Except to further his misdeeds.
The steering column change eschew
No good can come of it for you-
And likewise any motor shun
From which you can't bale out and run.
Let maiden modesty decide
To take a summer evening ride
On Something of the cycle breed
For virtue's friend was ever speed
No vulpine sibilance can come
From guileless lips of goggled chum.
With passion he is never dizzy
(his motor keeps him far too busy)
And even dual seats preclude
The acrobatic interlude.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 07:40:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Pick
Subject: Re: VintRR Re: Triumph
On Thu 22 May, Michael Moore wrote:
> > Michael; Thanks for the info on the trident. I didn't mean to clutter your
> > list with that but I just didn't look at the address to see where I was
> > replying to. Do you have any idea what a ballpark figure would be for that
> > bike. I guess what the traffic will bare is the standard reply. I would
> > really like to have it but I don't have a clue what its worth.
> > Warren Rhen
>
> Hello Warren,
>
> If the bike is as nice as Skip says than I'm sure that $8-10K is
> certainly within the ball park, and depending on
> condition/specification it might even be low. A triple is NOT a
> cheap race engine to build or to maintain (or fix when if it blows).
>
> I just took a look through the last few Classic Racer magazines, but
> couldn't find a single North-style Triple advertised. Perhaps Phil
> Pick has a price at hand for what he'd charge to build a new racer
> from the ground up.
After that, how could I not reply?
12,000 to 16,000 GB Pounds, for a bike as descibed, to current class
leading spec.
The offered bike sounds about right on price, but I would warn the
owner that the spec. may well be very different to any other version!
These bikes are all very individual.
- --
Philip Pick, Triple Cycles, 228 Henley Road Ilford Essex IG1 2TW England
Telephone +44 181 478 4807 Fax +44 181 478 4807
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #38
***************************
VintRR-digest Sunday, May 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 039
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 05:21:04 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintRR Admin absence
I'll be out of town Friday and Saturday so if the list blows up there
won't be anyone around to try and fix it. See you in a couple of
days.
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 May 97 15:49:14 -0500
From: "Raymond P. Farrell"
Subject: VintRR Reg Pridmores CLASS motorcycle school
Hello all,
I promised a story about the Pridmore CLASS motorcycle school which I took
last Saturday. Hmmà where do I start? This story is going to ramble, I can
tell. First of all, the all day session was great gobs of adrenaline filled
fun, and by the end of the day, I was tired. The ol' Norton held up real
well. I pushed it really hard this year, and the only mechanical problem I
had was the right exhaust nut started to come loose. Luckily, I noticed it
between the track sessions. The weather was excellent again this year.
This class is so informative and fun that it is hard to describe.
This was my second year taking the class, and I learned too many things to
mention them all. Body steering, front and back brake practice sessions,
track safety, riding positions, relaxed upper body, protective wear,
cornering lines, throttle and brake control, and lots more were all taught.
Speed was never an issue at any time during the class. Riding technique is
the main concern.
The class was taught at Second Creek Raceway near Denver Colorado. The
track is 1.7 miles with the longest straight away of about a quarter mile.
I could reach about 90-95 mph on it, but that included a very hard brake to
make the next corner. There are 11 turns, and quite bumpy in places, which
means the track is ideal for a Norton, which helped, because all the other
bikes in the class were of the modern varieties.
Last year, I scared myself a few times, including the two times when I went
off of the track. This year I must have matured a bit because, I did scare
myself a couple of times, but not at all like last year and I stayed on the
track the whole day. Which is a good thing -smile-. My goal was to really
learn the technique of riding the bike. By the way, Reg said he would
endorse me to get my AHRMA racing license. Yea! I am still working to get
my race Norton ready, which is far more time consuming than what I had first
projected.
Reg Pridmore divides the students into two groups, named appropriately, the
A group and the B group. There were 50 students, five of which were women
and I think 7 instructors, so there was ample opportunities to ask
individual questions, advice, etc.. Last year I was in the B group, this
year I was in the A group. The two groups alternate between class sessions
and track sessions. Last year, the ol' Norton fit right in with all the
modern bikes in the B group, and actually outperformed some of them. This
year though, in the A group, it was a different story. The Norton just
doesn't have the horsepower to keep up with these guys. Pulling out of a
corner is where the lack is really apparent. I had an urge for to go out
and buy a modern bike just for the fun of it, but luckily my wallet kept me
in line.
I put some of my race components onto my regular rider Norton to use for the
class. I used 18 inch race compound tires front and back, Works performance
shocks, a set of rearsets, SS front brake line, low bars, but other than
those changes, the bike I used is a near stock 850 '75 Commando. The bike
does have about 10,000 miles on a .020 rebore on the engine, so it pulls
good. Even with the new race shocks, I was grounding on my exhaust pipes.
I haven't really figured out an exhaust pipe solution yet for the racebike.
I bought a brand new Snell 95 helmet today. Costly but worth it! The full
face helmet I bought new last year is woefully inadequate. Luckily, I never
had to use it. Still need race quality boots (size 10 1/2) and gloves.
Thanks for listening,
Ray Farrell
850 Commando + 750 Commando getting ready to race this summer.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:50:45 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintRR Reg Pridmores CLASS motorcycle school
Hello Ray,
It sounds like you had a great time - you can't get enough track time
if you are going racing.
> well. I pushed it really hard this year, and the only mechanical problem I
> had was the right exhaust nut started to come loose. Luckily, I noticed it
Don't you have your exhaust nuts safetywired to prevent this? It
certainly was necessary to do that on my Ducati singles and
bevel-twins.
> good. Even with the new race shocks, I was grounding on my exhaust pipes.
> I haven't really figured out an exhaust pipe solution yet for the racebike.
You need a properly designed 2-1 exhaust system for your bike. They
make a big difference on a 360 degree twin (like my Laverda - about
15-20 bhp drop on the dyno when we switched to individual meggas from
the 2-1 tailpipe). The 2-1 is easier to tuck away and lighter too.
You can also make it into a high pipe for even more ground clearance
(see the pictures of the Laverda on the web site).
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #39
***************************
VintRR-digest Sunday, May 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 040
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:53:49 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintRR Laverda Racer Update
I went up to Craig's shop first thing Friday morning and got back
about 11PM Saturday night.
While I was there we got the height of the valve collet groove in the
valve stems set, and the valves fully modified. The new valves are
7mm stem titanium items instead of the stock SF2 8mm stem steel
valves. If I remember aright, the exhaust valve increased in head
size by 2mm and the intake by 3mm (41/35.5 stock vs 44/37.5 ti).
The interesting numbers are the weight differences:
Stock SF2:
70.9g - Intake valve
65.4g - Exhaust valve
19g - Spring retainer
Titanium:
53g - Intake valve
40.8g - Exhaust valve
11.1 - Spring retainer
This is a net loss per valve assy of
Intake: 17.9g + 7.9g =25.8g
Exhaust: 24.6g + 7.9g=35.5g
I didn't bring back the flow bench differences (before and after the
new valves and a bit more grinding by Craig) but the biggest
improvements came on the exhaust side. When this is coupled with the
big increase in exhaust cam lift (approx 2mm at the valve) from the
new Megacycle cam this should help the power noticeably, as Craig
said the exhaust flow was a bit low when compared to the intake in
the first version of the head.
The two cam halves have a long square key that goes between them, and
the mounting flanges and sprocket have matching keyways. I modified
the cam sprocket and sprocket to cam mounting flanges. I slotted the
3 cam retaining screw holes in the sprocket, and extended the key way
slot sideways as well. What this does is allow the sprocket to be
moved relative to the camshaft so the cam can be timed in properly.
I also drilled some holes through the flanges and sprocket to remove
a bit of weight. The Laverda parts are very massive, and quite
heavy. Now they are slightly less heavy (they are still not light!).
Craig also went through his piston ring catalog and came up with a
new set of rings (from Mercedes, Toyota, and some other car I think -
each ring is from a different vehicle) to order. The big improvement
here is likely to be from a more modern 3 piece oil ring instead of
the cast iron one piece ring with expander. The 3 piece ring does a
much better job of oil control, and isn't as likely to break either
(as well as being a bit lighter). With luck the rings will be in at
his shop at the end of the week, and in my hands the middle of the
next week.
We did a quick check of the cam to see that the timing was within the
range of adjustment (it is) and that there is valve to piston
clearance (seems fine). I'll have to do a better check with clay on
the pistons for valve edge to valve pocket edge clearance in the
piston after getting the cam timing nailed down. Then I'll pull the
top end back off, fit the rings (after modifying the piston as
needed) and do a final assembly timing on the engine.
One additional mod I will do to the piston is an oiling hole from the
oil ring groove to the piston pin hole. The wristpin and pin hole in
the piston aren't looking extremely happy, and could use some extra
oiling.
I also noticed that the rubber pad on the chain tensioner that the
tensioner rod pushes against is showing a fair amount of cracking, so
I'll have to see about fixing that. If my other tensioner isn't in
better shape I may make a new pad from some UHMW polyethylene, as I
think it is supposed to be sturdier than the stock rubber. This is
probably what the big chain tensioner wheel between the cylinders is
made out of, and I'll probably try making a new tensioner wheel for
my CR216 Honda out of this as well. The stock Honda tensioner wheels
are prone to hardening/chunking, esp in race use.
I'll have pictures of the new and old valve components, as well as
the cam sprocket mods, on the web site later this week when I get
the pictures developed.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:53:49 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintRR Oh no! Another vintage road race project
Hello,
My name is Michael, and I'm a projectaholic.
While at Craig's shop the last two days I did a deal with his friend
Marc to buy his MotoBi (also known as Benelli) horizontal-cylinder
250cc four stroke stuff. This is a fairly complete chassis with
presumably running engine and 2 additional engines. It appears that
all the bikes are 4 speed transmission models. In the spares is a new
race kit head (with "RR" lettering stamped below the exhaust port on
the underside of the head) that looks to have much bigger ports than
the standard head. There is also a new camshaft with "S" designation,
but we don't know if that stands for Sport, Speziale, or Standard
(maybe spatzle? - probably not since it is an Italian engine).
Craig and I spent about 40 minutes looking at the parts and scheming
on what to change. The crankshaft is not a real impressive looking
item. It has the same stroke as an XR200 Honda single (and is about
the same width), and the mainshafts on the Honda crank are enough
bigger that they could be turned down and modified to work in the
MotoBi. This would also give a bigger crank pin.
The 4(!) ring piston isn't very impressive either, but it is the
same bore as an XL250, and they are both flat top pistons so that is
solved too. The Honda piston uses a 1mm bigger wrist pin, but since
the deck height is a little lower that would probably be taken care of
by ordering a slightly longer Carrillo rod to the appropriate
length/ID dimensions.
Megacycle is supposed to have a master for the factory race kit cam,
so I'll contact them for timing specs on that to see what cam I've
got, or if the race kit cam will be at all suitable. Craig looked
through some catalogs and found some 5.5mm stem titanium valve blanks
in appropriate sizes, and I'm sure that R/D Spring will either have a
suitable valve spring set or can come up with one once I send them a
head. This time I won't worry about trying to come up with
replacements for the OEM parts as I did for the Laverda - whatever
retainers they've got on the shelf are what will be used.
Craig said the intake port didn't look too bad, but the exhaust is one
of the wretched flat ports that the Italians seemed to love to put in
their engines. I see a bit of TIG welding in the exhuast ports
future.
Ivar very kindly took some time send me some MotoBi information. He
told me that the factory bikes had trouble with the side thrust from
the helical primary gears (much as do Ducatis - Nova sells a straight
cut primary set for the Ducs) so this is going to have to be
addressed.
The transmission is the other sticking point. All of the engines I
got appear to be 4 speed boxes, which strikes me as less than optimum
for a 250 race bike. 5 speed models were also sold in the States, but
Ivar tells me that all the factory racers used 4 speed transmissions.
The standard 5 speed has a wider overall spread than a Ducati 5 speed
(and we won't even mention how it compares to an Aermacchi race
gearbox!), and the top gears aren't very close together.
The immediate conclusion was to find another transmission to install
(since I know of another Italian 250 racing bike that is running a
CR125 6 speed). But wait - the MotoBi uses an English-style
transmission with a mainshaft/layshaft setup (power comes in and goes
out from the mainshaft), not a typical Italian/Japanese indirect
crossover type box where the power comes in on the main shaft and
leaves via the countershaft. The 4 speed cases are fairly narrow
inside as well. Hmmmm, this is going to require more thought.
I've been emailing with a fellow in Australia who has some of the 5
speed engines, but even there new gears would have to be made, though
this might be less trouble in the long run than finding a different
transmission to swap into the engine. Then again, most of the tracks
over here don't have (m)any first gear corners, so if I could build a
dry clutch that would tolerate a lot of slipping on the start a close
ratio 4 speed might be tolerable.
I don't know yet if Zanzani or others made straight-cut gear
conversions or different transmission ratios, but I'll find out. I
now have a (presumably) good address for Werner Maltry, who developed
a lot of the factory racers and his own LinTo-type 500 twin based on
the MotoBi single, so I'll drop him a line and see if he recalls any
helpful information.
I'll build a new chassis for it. Ivar told me that Zanzani made a
space frame for sale for the bikes, and I see no problem doing a
replica of that or a LinTo 500. The lower rear motor mount appears to
be usefully wide, but the top mounts are only 30mm wide and about
60-70mm apart. Hmmmm, maybe a bit more TIG welding will be called for
here.
The engine has a pretty narrow chain line with about 10-15mm
clearance to a 3.00x18 Avon tire, so it may need to be slightly
offset in the frame to allow a 90 or 100 section tire.
I think that a set of late model external-damper Guzzi GP pattern
leading link forks are likely, or maybe some Reynolds type LL forks,
whichever seem to be more appropriate for the link geometry that I
decide upon.
Before you know it (well, maybe late next year) I may have a perfect
replica of the MotoBi racer that everyone wished they were riding in
1965.
As you might guess, any bits of MotoBi lore, legend or engine
components are desired - you know where to find me. I guess I need to
see if the Benelli club caters to MotoBi - or maybe I'll have to start
a MotoBi club myself (in my copious spare time - right).
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
End of VintRR-digest V1 #40
***************************
Back to the home page
© 1996-2003 Michael Moore, last update for this page 19 August 2003
For more information contact us by using
http://www.eurospares.com/vrrd4.htm