Vintage Dirt Digest #41-50
VintDirt-digest Monday, July 28 1997 Volume 01 : Number 041
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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:38:37 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintDirt Current stats
As of 9:23PM Sunday July 27, the subscriber stats to the lists are:
LW RR - 33
V RR - 97
V Dirt - 54
Suzuki GS Twin - 32
MC Chassis Design - 105
I've noticed that things have been kind of quiet on some of the
lists. You know what that means - more posts from me. You have been
warned.
What's the deal? Don't tell me everyone is out riding motorcycles or
something instead of sitting in front of their computer.
MILESTONES: I think the Chassis list is the first to break 100
subscribers. I had actually thought that the two vintage lists
would have had a wider audience appeal.
SPAM: We've been lucky in escaping most of the spam that seems to be
hitting the other lists. Just a reminder in advance - if you get a
spam that comes to you through the list - DO NOT SEND A 'REMOVE' OR
SIMILAR MESSAGE BACK TO THE LIST!!!!! Besides, all the 'remove'
message does is give the spammer your email address so they can send
directly to you. If you must send a "remove" or similar message,
please make sure that you send it to the spammer, and not back to
the list - you'll just have to read it again, and so will everyone
else. C'mon, we're not talking rocket since here.
THANKS: I'd also like to thank those of you who have been
contributing to the lists - I've enjoyed reading many of the posts,
and have learned something from a number of them as well. I'm
pretty satisfied with the way things are going on the lists, though
a few more messages from the lurkers wouldn't hurt. You must have
something to say about the list subjects, or you wouldn't have
subscribed.
BOUNCED MAIL: A couple people are getting close to being
unsubscribed due to bounced mail. Of course, they probably won't
get this message. Remember that I'll cut you some slack for 3 or 4
days, but if things keep bouncing after that I'll unsub you and
you'll have to resubscribe. If you've gone for a week or so and not
gotten any messages from a list check with me and I'll tell you if
you've been dropped from the list. If not, I'll invite you to make
a post to the list so everyone will have something to read.
PICTURES: I've gotten a few neat pictures recently - but the rest of
you should remember that if you have a photo that you think will fit
into my graphics page I'll be glad to consider it. You can send me a
graphics file or mail me a photo for scanning if you don't have a
scanner. Please don't send me a 1MG .tiff file - try to keep them
below 100K, and most stuff seems to do well at 40-80K. Also, try to
view the photo first, and make it big enough to show the details of
your cool bike. Better a bigger photo with a bit more compression
then a tiny photo packed with indecipherable detail.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:27:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: APGUSER@aol.com
Subject: Re: VintDirt Japanese vs Euro/Brit MXers in the late 60s/early 70s
In a message dated 97-07-27 05:20:17 EDT, you write:
<< Doug Sez:
> The Japanese
> ultimately built better "machines" but the Europeans built better
> motorcycles.
Yes, and if you want a true "masterpiece" you should go english?
>>
If I remember correctly the English consider themselves to be English and not
Europeans. ; - ) In terms of vintage racing I don't recall too many
pre-1970 Japanese bikes winning off-road championships (then or now) so may
be unfair to compare a mid-sixties BSA thumper to say a '65 Yamaha Big Bear
Scrambler or any of the other "legendary" Japanses dirt bikes of the pre-1970
period.
Doug
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:15:57 -0500
From: no1oscar@juno.com (Stephen S Lucas)
Subject: VintDirt 73 CZ
1973 CZ 250 for sale. Located in eastern Nebraska.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:51:01 PDT
From: "Kevin Adams"
Subject: VintDirt Date ??
Hello Dirt Dudes,
Can anyone tell me what year model Yamaha's "E" designation was ??
I had a YZ400E, and am trying to place the year. It was the first year
with an aluminum swing arm.
Thanks, Kevin Adams
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:33:23 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Date ??
> Can anyone tell me what year model Yamaha's "E" designation was ??
> I had a YZ400E, and am trying to place the year. It was the first year
> with an aluminum swing arm.
Hello Kevin,
My TT500D was a 1977 model year, so the E should be 1978.
cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:34:32 PDT
From: "Kevin Adams"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Japanese vs Euro/Brit MXers in the late 60s/early 70s
Regarding this discussion, has everyone read the recent (4-5 weeks ago)
"View From the Fence" piece by Eric Johnson in Cycle News??
I found it very informative, and directly applicable to this thread.
Perhaps my memories are to hazy of the time period in question, that
being the transition from European to Japanese iron domination. When I
was 12-13, I remember getting to occasionally go to Ocala and watch the
races. I can remember a LOT of coffin tank Maicos, CZ's, a few Taco
Bells, some Pentons, but I can't remember any Zuki's or Elsinores. Then
this one dude, Buddy Johnson shows up with a 250 Suzuki, and just BLOWS
everybody away. Logic sez that musta been a TM, but I seem to recall the
rounded RM tank. Oh well, faded memories.
I had 1 Maico, a 400, and it was really fine. I raced that thing AT
LEAST 40 times that year (?78?), and practiced it 4-6 hours a week, and
never had the head off. And Florida sugar sand is hard on a bike. The
clutch was shit, the front brake was shit, but w/400cc's and riding in
sand, they weren't missed. That thing turned like it was on RR tracks,
you could just carve any line you wanted. VERY high quality
craftsmanship. I really wish I had that bike back.
I always saw passion in the Olde World craftsmanship of the European
bikes, and it always appealed to me. But, the Japanese developed
advanced technology, and applied it with great attention to detail.
Hence, the decision became buy a bike with that appealing Olde World
Flavor, or buy a bike that you could win on. And racing is about the
competitive drive, ie WINNING.
That's a large part of what appeals to me about Vintage Racing. I can
buy and run what I love, because I'm no longer 18 and winning is no
longer as important to me as enjoyment is.
Well, I've AuntBea'd my $.02 worth!
Next? !!BATTER, UP!!
Ya'll enjoy dat fine Iron, Kevin Adams
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #41
*****************************
VintDirt-digest Tuesday, July 29 1997 Volume 01 : Number 042
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:16:51 -0700
From: Jerry Erickson
Subject: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
I have been on the list for a while sittin quit trying to get a feel for
what happenin. Not very much! How about everyone send me a list of
what you ride and I will summarize the results and send back to everyone
so that we can get an idea what or where the group is as far as interest
etc. This would only be Vintage Dirt bikes. I am sure lots of you
also have many bikes that don't fit this catagory.
I'll get it rollin, I've got 5 Pentons, 3 Huskys, 2 Montesa Cotas, 2
Honda Scramblers and a 441 Victor.
If there are any other Penton fans out there, I would especially like to
hear from you.
Thanks, Vintage Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:55:50 -0400
From: Harold
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
I have three Sherpa T's, a Lobito, a 250 Pursang, Honda SL 125 and 350,
A Husky 390 automatic and a Hercules GS-250. I also have a huge Penton
Decal which I would be willing to swap you for something.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 05:56:41 -0400
From: "Rick Bley"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
Jerry
1964 CZ Trials 125
1965 CZ Trials 175
1972 CZ 125 MX
1974 CZ 400 MX
1979 Vespa P125X (a new acquisition for my wife, I am told at the Vespa
rallies that they are raced on a grass track, GO FIGGUR)
Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, roadracer, MX and
Trials rider. 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 125 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,
FOR SALE: 1964/5 CZ Trials bikes $1,500
1974 CZ 400 MX $1,250
1975 Husky 125 MX $375
Hickory (western North Carolina)
and... looking for Honda CL72 stuff for AHRMA MX racer.
- ----------
> From: Jerry Erickson
> To: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
> Date: Tuesday, July 29, 1997 2:16 AM
>
> I have been on the list for a while sittin quit trying to get a feel for
> what happenin. Not very much! How about everyone send me a list of
> what you ride and I will summarize the results and send back to everyone
> so that we can get an idea what or where the group is as far as interest
> etc. This would only be Vintage Dirt bikes. I am sure lots of you
> also have many bikes that don't fit this catagory.
>
> I'll get it rollin, I've got 5 Pentons, 3 Huskys, 2 Montesa Cotas, 2
> Honda Scramblers and a 441 Victor.
>
> If there are any other Penton fans out there, I would especially like to
> hear from you.
>
> Thanks, Vintage Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 05:22:28 -0500
From: Ron Sutton
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
Hello Vintage Jerry,
Put me down for two 74 Rokons, one RT340 and one MX340 Cobra.
Ron Sutton
rsutton@siue.edu
Keeper of the Rokon Page
http://www.siue.edu/~rsutton/rokon
78 Yamaha SR500
74 Rokon RT340
74 Rokon MX340C
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 05:06:16 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
Hello Jerry,
I did a similar list, along with location and email address for the
trials list - you just let yourself in for some work, presuming you
get more than 2 or 3 responses.
As long as we don't have to count running bikes, my dirt bikes are:
Honda 125 vintage MX thumpette
Honda CB160T vintage trials
1985 CanAm 560 Sonic
Most of a Can Am 500 Sonic
500 and 600cc Matchless singles
BSA 441 vintage trials
BSA 500MX
Bultaco 1971 Sherpa T 250
Most of a 500 Tri/BSA
1986 Husky water-cooled 510 thumper - no engine
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:46:25 GMT+6
From: "Jeffrey W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
Let's see:
'75 Hodaka Road Toad (my trials bike)
M188 Bultaco Alpina (in progress, basket case)
'66 Honda Trail-90 (in progress, more there than the Alpina)
'64 Honda CT-200 (this is my wife's bike and amazingly, it's almost
done)
cheerz,
Jeff
> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:16:51 -0700
> From: Jerry Erickson
> To: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
> Reply-to: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> I have been on the list for a while sittin quit trying to get a feel for
> what happenin. Not very much! How about everyone send me a list of
> what you ride and I will summarize the results and send back to everyone
> so that we can get an idea what or where the group is as far as interest
> etc. This would only be Vintage Dirt bikes. I am sure lots of you
> also have many bikes that don't fit this catagory.
>
> I'll get it rollin, I've got 5 Pentons, 3 Huskys, 2 Montesa Cotas, 2
> Honda Scramblers and a 441 Victor.
>
> If there are any other Penton fans out there, I would especially like to
> hear from you.
>
> Thanks, Vintage Jerry
>
>
*******************************************************
Jeffrey W. Spencer Email: jws@ee.umr.edu
Electrical Engineering Phone: 573-341-4919
University of Missouri-Rolla Fax: 573-341-4532
Alternate Personal Email at: spencer@rollanet.org
http://www.rollanet.org/~spencer/jeff/jeff.html
*******************************************************
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #42
*****************************
VintDirt-digest Tuesday, July 29 1997 Volume 01 : Number 043
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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:36:17 EDT
From: unklneil@juno.com (Neil J Novack)
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
HI Jerry,
I've got a 74 TY250 trials bike that I'm putting a chair on for sidecar
trials, and a
73 WASP/Kawi H2 sidecar motoX rig. And writing this just made me
realize that
I no longer have a vintage dirt solo bike. hmmmm. gotta do something
about that.
Neil
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:16:51 -0700 Jerry Erickson
writes:
>I have been on the list for a while sittin quit trying to get a feel
>for
>what happenin. Not very much! How about everyone send me a list of
>what you ride and I will summarize the results and send back to
>everyone
>so that we can get an idea what or where the group is as far as
>interest
>etc. This would only be Vintage Dirt bikes. I am sure lots of you
>also have many bikes that don't fit this catagory.
>
>I'll get it rollin, I've got 5 Pentons, 3 Huskys, 2 Montesa Cotas, 2
>Honda Scramblers and a 441 Victor.
>
>If there are any other Penton fans out there, I would especially like
>to
>hear from you.
>
>Thanks, Vintage Jerry
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:09:04 -0500
From: "Rick R. McDowell"
Subject: VintDirt Vintage Dirt readers rides
Hello All,
I own a couple of vintage mx-ers. First is a 1974 Maico 450 that I
bought new when I was fifteen. I raced it here in Iowa till about 1979
or so. I completely restored it to mint condition last year and it is
now better than when it was new. It sets here in my business and
growls if anyone gets to close.
Second one is a 1973 CZ 250 a good friend bought new but only raced a
couple of times and then parked it in my garage for 20 years. It will
get a full restoration to original maybe next year. I will need an
original gas tank for it, it has a plastic one on it now. The dealer
traded the original tank back to the importer in exchange for an
electronic ignition because the importer needed some aluminum tanks for
team bikes they were building. Anyone have one in very nice shape?
Another friend has a MINT 1974 250 Husky WR but he won't sell it to me.
He is 65 and thinks that by selling it he is admitting that he is too
old to ride again. Can't blame him.
Have fun!
Rick McDowell
Competition Specialties
Osceola, Iowa 50213
compspec@pionet.net
"Too much horsepower is just enough."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:15:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: APGUSER@aol.com
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
In a message dated 97-07-29 02:17:32 EDT, you write:
<< How about everyone send me a list of
what you ride and I will summarize the results and send back to everyone
so that we can get an idea what or where the group is as far as interest
etc. >>
Jerry,
Bultaco 250 Pursang MkIV (M68)
Kaw KLR650
'79 Kaw KE250 (wife's)
'90 XR80 (kid's)
'96 Husqvarna lawnmower (wife's also)
BTW, the '79 KE250 is sort of an interesting bike. Still has the twin shocks
like God intended though slightly forward. Handles pretty decent and is fun
to ride. Bought the bike a few months ago for the wife. The bike only has
4800 miles on it and still had the original trails universal tires. For $600
she got a really nice play bike that's street legal.
Doug
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:19:40 -0400
From: "Rick Bley"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Vintage Dirt readers rides
Rick;
I have an alloy tank, no dents, excellent condition; $250 or trade for a
CL72; and I will throw in a reproduction tank strap.
Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, roadracer, MX and
Trials rider. 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 125 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,
FOR SALE: 1964/5 CZ Trials bikes $1,500
1974 CZ 400 MX $1,250
1975 Husky 125 MX $375
Hickory (western North Carolina)
and... looking for Honda CL72 stuff for AHRMA MX racer.
- ----------
> From: Rick R. McDowell
> To: Vintage Dirt Digest
> Subject: VintDirt Vintage Dirt readers rides
> Date: Tuesday, July 29, 1997 3:09 PM
>
> Hello All,
>
> I own a couple of vintage mx-ers. First is a 1974 Maico 450 that I
>tank back to the importer in exchange for an
> electronic ignition because the importer needed some aluminum tanks for
> team bikes they were building. Anyone have one in very nice shape?
>
>
> Rick McDowell
> Competition Specialties
> Osceola, Iowa 50213
> compspec@pionet.net
>
> "Too much horsepower is just enough."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:05:47 -0500
From: Fred Hunter
Subject: VintDirt List of what everybody on the Vintage dirt list rides
Ok, I'll start out:
Dirt: 1980 Honda XL-500S
Street: 1983 Honda CX-650 Turbo
1961 Honda CB-92 Benly
Garden: 1976 Honda F-28 Roto-tiller
Fred Hunter
Kansas City
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:29:17 -0700
From: Phil Kopp
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
Put me down for the following:
1967 CL160 very clean, runs great
1974 XL250 rebuilt top-end, brakes; carb and shocks next
1972 XL250 parts bike for above
Phil Kopp
http://www.spiretech.com/~philk/
Seattle
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #43
*****************************
VintDirt-digest Thursday, July 31 1997 Volume 01 : Number 044
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:07:43 -0700
From: harold
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
RE your XL Parts bike, I'm in need of alloy rims front and back from an
XL 250. Willing to part with yours?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 06:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: alchemy@sos.net (Larry Burtness)
Subject: Re: VintDirt List of what everybody on the Vintage dirt list rides
My name is Larry Burtness. I recently subscribed to this list.
I currently have a couple of restoration projects underway -
1971 OSSA Stilletto; I need a shift lever, kick start lever, piston rings or
piston/rings, wrist pin set.
1976 Honda XL175
1970 Honda SL100
Other bikes include
'86 Honda XR600
'79 Yamaha SR500
'75 Yamaha TT500 C&J flattrack racer
'78 Yamaha 250/Champion flattrack racer
'74 Yamaha 750 flattrack racer project in progress
Larry Burtness
LaConner, Washington
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 07:50:54 -0700
From: seymore@wdni.com (Ed Seymore)
Subject: VintDirt Vintage Dirt readers' rides
Greetings all,
My dirt bike is the 1967 250cc Greeves Challenger that I bought new
and raced for a few seasons. It's been in the garage since then,
and it's about half-wasy through a thorough spiffing up. I have
both kinds of forks, the funky factory ones and the silver Cerianis.
My street bikes are a 1970 BMW R75/5 and a Moto Guzzi Sport 1100.
Ed Seymore
Tacoma, WA
seymore@wdni.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: bg88@earthlink.net (bg)
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
My list:
1969 Husky 360- #2 on the project list
1976 Ducati 860- #1 on the list
1979 SR500- just finished
1982 UJM- for sale
I have also recently discovered (in a barn no less) a Sherpa T that I will
be inquiring about.
Questions:
1. What rims do you guys recommend for the Husky? The originals are dead.
2. Anybody know the Hodaka story? I remember they were put together in
Oregon by Pabatco. I always wanted one of these as a kid.
Bill
Moss Beach, CA
snip
>I'll get it rollin, I've got 5 Pentons, 3 Huskys, 2 Montesa Cotas, 2
>Honda Scramblers and a 441 Victor.
>
>If there are any other Penton fans out there, I would especially like to
>hear from you.
>
>Thanks, Vintage Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:08:23 GMT+6
From: "Jeffrey W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
> 2. Anybody know the Hodaka story? I remember they were put together in
> Oregon by Pabatco. I always wanted one of these as a kid.
Drop by my pages at http://www.rollanet.org/~spencer/jeff/cycle.html
I've got a couple of old magazine articles that I've scanned in on
both Hodakas and Bultacos. I believe they're under my 'clippings'
section.
cheerz,
Jeff
*******************************************************
Jeffrey W. Spencer Email: jws@ee.umr.edu
Electrical Engineering Phone: 573-341-4919
University of Missouri-Rolla Fax: 573-341-4532
Alternate Personal Email at: spencer@rollanet.org
http://www.rollanet.org/~spencer/jeff/jeff.html
*******************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:59:21 +0000
From: kevinm@gil.com.au
Subject: Re: VintDirt Date ??
I bought my YZ 400E in November 1977, I still have it.
Regards Kevin Macdonald.
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #44
*****************************
VintDirt-digest Monday, August 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 045
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:00:00 -0500
From: Chuck Kichline
Subject: VintDirt Hodaka-guchi?
I saw the Hodakability article, and they mention Hodaka LTD.
as the manufacturer of Hodakas. I seem to remember that they
were originally Yamaguchi, and tried to import in the early
60's for a while - wasn't it the Yamaguchi RunPet (bad translation
of rabbit)?
I understood that Pabatco saved them - for a while, anyway, by
having them build a bike to their specifications.
chuckk@doubt.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:10:38 GMT+6
From: "Jeffrey W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Hodaka-guchi?
I need to delve into this part a bit more. If anyone has any early
articles on Yamaguchi, I'd love a copy.. I've been told that
Yamaguchi was the motorcycle company, and Hodaka
made engines for them. Yamaguchi went under and Hodaka had all of
these engines left over and the operations to make them, so they just
started making the bikes. Pabatco was the U.S. importer that made
them big here. Of course this has just been what I've been told
because I can't seem to find any articles or stories on Yamaguchi
anywhere.
Jeff
> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:00:00 -0500
> From: Chuck Kichline
> Organization: Austin, TX
> To: vintage dirt
> Subject: VintDirt Hodaka-guchi?
> Reply-to: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> I saw the Hodakability article, and they mention Hodaka LTD.
> as the manufacturer of Hodakas. I seem to remember that they
> were originally Yamaguchi, and tried to import in the early
> 60's for a while - wasn't it the Yamaguchi RunPet (bad translation
> of rabbit)?
> I understood that Pabatco saved them - for a while, anyway, by
> having them build a bike to their specifications.
>
> chuckk@doubt.com
>
*******************************************************
Jeffrey W. Spencer Email: jws@ee.umr.edu
Electrical Engineering Phone: 573-341-4919
University of Missouri-Rolla Fax: 573-341-4532
Alternate Personal Email at: spencer@rollanet.org
http://www.rollanet.org/~spencer/jeff/jeff.html
*******************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:54:58 -0600
From: Ron Sutton
Subject: Re: VintDirt Hodaka-guchi?
>Yamaguchi was the motorcycle company, and Hodaka
>made engines for them. Yamaguchi went under and Hodaka had all of
>these engines left over and the operations to make them, so they just
>started making the bikes. Pabatco was the U.S. importer that made
Hi Jeff,
That is pretty much the way I understood the relationship, except that
Pabatco designed the bike and Hodaka manufacture them to Pabatco spec's
using their (Hodaka's) engines.
There used to be a book on the Hodaka story back in the early 70's. I
don't where you would get one. I think it was put out by Pabatco, but I
could be wrong on that count.
Ron
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:18:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: makind@igs.net (David L. Makin)
Subject: VintDirt CCM Forks
Are there any CCM owners out there who can advise me on the front forks of
my '75 CCM MX? They are the type with externally adjustable damping. What
grade of oil, and how much, is required for regular use? I've got a lot of
BSA and CCM literature but this question doesn't seem to be answered
anywhere. My experience using this bike has all been in very low
temperatures, on ice, so I've used a very light oil to date.
Pls reply direct as I am on the digest, but I'm in a hurry -- CVMG rally
this weekend. Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:36:57 -0500
From: no1oscar@juno.com (Stephen S Lucas)
Subject: VintDirt 73 CZ
yesterdays mail lost here. any replies...repeat please
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:26:33 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Hodaka-guchi?
> I saw the Hodakability article, and they mention Hodaka LTD.
> as the manufacturer of Hodakas. I seem to remember that they
> were originally Yamaguchi, and tried to import in the early
> 60's for a while - wasn't it the Yamaguchi RunPet (bad translation
> of rabbit)?
Hello Chuck,
I've got a small article and picture on my web site of the Yamaguchi
50 Scrambler special that "the grand old man of New England
scrambles" Joe Bolger built.
I think the RunPet was a Tohatsu, not a Yamaguchi.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:27:01 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintDirt Rules and Eligibility (was T500 roadracer)
This is being cross-posted to the Vintage-dirt list as the subject is
just as applicable to vintage MX/Trials etc as vintage RR.
> Hi folks: A comment about this. Even if it can be proved that a
> version of a T500 Suzuki was raced in 1967 or earlier, the
> management committee of the Classic Racing Motorcycle Club are
> not obliged to issue an eligibility certificate, if the
> committee make a decision based on overall effect.
> In other words, I believe that if the management committee decide
> that granting eligibility to any particular model will result in
> less overall entries for that particular class of race, at CRMC
> meetings, then there is no obligation to grant that certificate.
Hello Philip,
This is a knotty subject, as much of classic racing rule making seems
designed to recreate an era the way the rule makers wish it had been,
rather than the way it actually was.
F750, a class no doubt near and dear to you, deliberately excludes
the vile 2 strokes so that people will bring out their 4 stroke
bikes with some hope of being competitive. Exclusion of the TD3
Yamaha isn't historically accurate, but is done to try and avoid
history repeating itself.
Another example from AHRMA is the "no integral float smoothbore carb
except for exact OEM fitment" rule. When CVRG and later AHRMA were
started, the carb rule allowed up/back dating within the OEM brand of
carb, but if you switched to something else it had to be a "period"
carb. Hence, a 1962 250 Ducati could run a late-model Dell'Orto
carb, but if switching to AMAL would have to run a monobloc (going
strictly by bike date, ignoring rule vagaries). When I built my
CR216 Honda I put modern Kei'hin CR carbs on it as they were the
closest thing I could find to the sandcast CR carbs used on the CR/RC
Honda bikes, and I wanted to make the bike more period
looking/historically accurate.
This was within the up/back date rule. Somewhere along the line (and
I've still not received an explanation that makes sense to me or some
of my friends, though I've ragged on Richard and Fred about it
several times) AHRMA decided that the smoothbore carbs (though I
suspect it was more the JAPANESE smooth bore carbs on JAPANESE race
bikes at issue) were the kiss of death for classic racing and
instituted the rule change, which also threw out the smoothbore AMAL
MKII. Note here that the Kei'hin CRs couldn't be legally run on
anything but Hondas, just as a smoothbore AMAL MKII couldn't be run
legally on anything that didn't have an AMAL of some type as OEM
fitment.
If I had a Honda CR110, 93, 72, 77, 750 or RSC350 and am fortunate
enough to have the original sand cast Kei'hin CR carbs (which the
folks at Kei'hin will be glad to swear up and down perform no
differently from the later carbs which were just optimized for
production and fitted with a choke circuit instead of ticklers) I
can run them. But if they are damaged, or if they were missing when
the bike was obtained (and they aren't that easy to come by) I can't
fit the modern version of the original carbs and must run something
else - DUH! Therefore, when my little Honda twin goes back
together it will have a set of 30mm Dell'Ortos on it instead of the
26mm CRs - how accurate!
What's the problem? Cost? I think not - the CRs are a bit more
expensive, but we're talking $50-100/carb difference which shouldn't
be a budget breaker these days (and what do the new AMAL GPs cost?).
Performance? While they are an excellent carb and flow better than
a standard carb of the same size it is possible to put a bigger carb
on to get equivelant flow to the CR. Availability? Sure a lot
easier to get than a 42mm Dell'Orto SS1, as are jets and replacement
parts.
Anyway, please don't take this as a general indictment of the
rulemakers. While I think there may be a bit of anti-this or that
bias that creeps in now and again, I think by and large the different
rule makers are doing the best job possible in a tough position of
trying to balance accuracy vs expansion of the sport.
That doesn't mean I can't complain about what seem to me to be
senseless rules.
I rehashed a related argument with my friend Chris on Saturday.
Chris becomes livid about "modern" technology inside of
production-based vintage racer engines. Somehow if you have the
only XYZ brand unobtainium ex-works widget left it is OK to run
that, or even make an EXACT copy of it. However, if you have an
ABC-brand bike where the factory never built one of those widgets,
but you figure you can copy the XYZ item and maybe upgrade it a bit
materials or design-wise - Uh uh - no way.
He (and a customer who vintage MXs that was in the shop) were saying
that people are taking 400/450 Maicos, boring them out to accept a
YZ490 Yamaha sleeve and piston, and then using the one of the YZ crank halves to
allow use of the YZ ignition. This to them was anathema. I asked if
it would be OK to install a 501 Maico sleeve and nice Mahle piston,
carve the ports to replicate the YZ490 timing, and then fit a
Motoplat/Femsa electronic ignition. Noooo problem. I must say that
the qualitative difference hear escapes me.
Plus, as soon as you start trying to legislate internal modifications
beyond the easily checked bore and stroke you've just created a world
of headache for the tech people (just ask the guys who try to police
the big-bucks production or HD twin RR classes). "Sorry sir, but
your port/cam timing is obviously of post-classic specification, and
you've used a 15/16 ball end mill on your connecting rod, whilst the
factory could only afford increments of 1/8 inch."
It seems that it is OK to put old-tech OEM parts in your bike, even
if you know that you've just quadrupled the likelihood of a
catastrophic failure vis a vis using a (more) modern component in
your irreplaceable engine. Remember, these are parts that aren't
externally visible, and aren't going to be "ruining" the classic
appeal of the bike to the spectators.
Perhaps someone else can explain all this to me so I can see the
light.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #45
*****************************
VintDirt-digest Tuesday, August 5 1997 Volume 01 : Number 046
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 19:14:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: APGUSER@aol.com
Subject: Re: VintDirt Rules and Eligibility (was T500 roadracer)
In a message dated 97-08-04 17:13:19 EDT, you write:
<< "Sorry sir, but
your port/cam timing is obviously of post-classic specification, and
you've used a 15/16 ball end mill on your connecting rod, whilst the
factory could only afford increments of 1/8 inch." >>
Gee, I thought we were just a bunch of middle-age, fat, bald guys trying to
re-live our mispent youth. I didn't realize we were supposed to take it all
so seriously!
; - )
Doug
Bultaco 250 Pursang Mk IV
("If you can't go fast at least make the bike look good")
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:39:22 -0500
From: John Goodpaster
Subject: Re: VintDirt Rules and Eligibility (was T500 roadracer)
It seems that it is OK to put old-tech OEM parts in your bike, even
if you know that you've just quadrupled the likelihood of a
catastrophic failure vis a vis using a (more) modern component in
your irreplaceable engine. Remember, these are parts that aren't
externally visible, and aren't going to be "ruining" the classic
appeal of the bike to the spectators.
Perhaps someone else can explain all this to me so I can see the
light.
As time goes on these rules are examined and changes can be made.
There are some carb rules coming up that may benefit all concerned. I can
understand about putting OEM parts on but then it is vintage. You know what
will happen if it goes like this; sure the new mods are o.k., forks, frame,
wheels cranks etc,etc. Then we do not have vintage anymore but modern bikes
in sheeps clothing. I am in favor of any mod that enhances safety but not
performance..............
John Goodpaster
AHRMA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 19:07:47 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Rules and Eligibility (was T500 roadracer)
Hello John,
> There are some carb rules coming up that may benefit all concerned. I can
I'm waiting with bated breath to hear what these changes are.
> understand about putting OEM parts on but then it is vintage. You know what
> will happen if it goes like this; sure the new mods are o.k., forks, frame,
> wheels cranks etc,etc. Then we do not have vintage anymore but modern bikes
> in sheeps clothing. I am in favor of any mod that enhances safety but not
> performance..............
But how do you distinguish between period engine modifications and
modern stuff when it comes to porting, machine work, etc? It seems
like unless you have stuff that you can very easily do a visual ID
upon that you are letting the tech folk in for much wrangling and
straining at imponderables.
3 to 18 speed gear boxes were used during the period in different
bikes, so it seems like gearboxes should be pretty much fair game
(should an early 50s Manx be limited to 4 when the Guzzi's had 5
speeds (and many lathes had more than that - just an example that
transmissions are a standard industrial thing, not something
special).
Bill Lomas converted his plebian and pushrod Royal Enfield single to
DOHC in the early 1950s (and I've seen DOHC 500 Triumph conversions,
etc and other people like Dennis Jones and Nougier built complete
race engines) - can I do the same for my B50MX? What about the guys
from Down Under who brought their homemade 500cc SuperHawk to Daytona
a few years back? It looked quite period to me, and they didn't use
any super exotic technology to do it, and I understand that it was
quite fast?
I've got plenty of pictures of nice triangulated space frames, spine
frames, pressed steel monocoques (Arial Leader anyone - or maybe S90
Honda?) etc from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Cantilever rear ends on
Vincents, upside down telescopics on Guzzis, leading link forks on
lots of bikes, hub center steering on Ner-a-cars and Difazio's AJS7R,
Ernie Earles tubular aluminum chassis in the 1950s, BSAs titanium
frames (bad job there) in the 1960s, etc.
Granted, the DOHC B50 example may be pushing things a bit, but I'm
trying to point out how hard it is to say one thing is a period
modification and another isn't, especially when dealing with
motorcycles where there have been soooooo many innovators/mad looneys
with machine shops (I like to think I lean more towards the previous,
but fear it is actually the latter). Yes, we can build a perfectly
modern vintage bike with nothing but period modifications.
On the dirt side Don Morley's "Classic British Trials Bike" book
certainly demonstrates that the factories did not run even close to
what they sold as "Works Replicas", and I'm sure there are some
C15/B40s running in AHRMA that have had the head angles changed etc.
The factories certainly didn't have an exclusive lock on innovators -
there were plenty of them in garden sheds too.
I'll repeat that I'm pretty comfortable with the general state of
the AHRMA rule book as it has evolved to the present - please don't
take any of this as an attack against AHRMA mgmt/staff or the rules
committees. Richard M. and others have been receptive to period
specials (Richard, Al Gunter and others of that crowd certainly made
plenty of them).
I think my comments boil down to
Engines: if you can't see it, ignore it, or at least don't make any
restrictions that you can't check in with a couple of minutes of
wrench work ("What's this - 5 valves in a Gold Star head??!!!").
Chassis: forks can be easily checked for tube OD - don't concern
yourself with what is inside. Same with rear dampers - if they look
good they are good (doesn't seem to be a problem with the rule book
anyway). If a frame looks kind of like something that someone ran
some time on some bike from 1940 to 1974 don't get flustered.
The more rules, the more the accusations of cheating, and the more
the tech people get dragged into trying to rule on things that
require the services of the "Center for Classic Motorcycle Research
and Arcane Lore".
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:54:04 -0700
From: Jerry Erickson
Subject: VintDirt Kawasaki 370
Just heard about somebody that has a Kawasaki 370 aprox 1975 dirt bike
in his garage and wants to get rid of it. Anybody know anything about
Kaw 370's? Was it a good bike? Would it be a KX370 or is 75 before the
KX era? Is it worth anything? Are parts available? Is it AHRMA legal?
All info appriciated
Vintage Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 23:17:59 +1200
From: David Gibb
Subject: VintDirt XL250/350s
I have a friend who has needs information about Honda XLs from the 1972 -
1976 era. She would like to find a manual (or a copy) and a parts book. She
is making slow progress with her XL 250 Motorsport but is gradually getting
all the bits cleaned up ready for assembly.
I was wondering if there was anything on the internet that I could download
to help her like exploded diagrams or pictures. If anyone knows of any sites
I would appreciate the addresses.
Also needs rear indicator mounts for the XL 250 and the right hand side
cover for the 1976 XL350 if anyone knows where we could get some.
TIA.
Dave
David Gibb
MGNOC #12374
daveg@chch.planet.org.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand.
There is absolutely no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation.
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #46
*****************************
VintDirt-digest Tuesday, August 5 1997 Volume 01 : Number 047
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 04:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Goodpaster
Subject: Re: VintDirt Rules and Eligibility (was T500 roadracer)
>But how do you distinguish between period engine modifications and
>modern stuff when it comes to porting, machine work, etc? It seems
>like unless you have stuff that you can very easily do a visual ID
>upon that you are letting the tech folk in for much wrangling and
>straining at imponderables.
I have no problem with folks getting the most out of their machines
as long as the cubes are legal. I know you can only do so much before the
reliability goe's south.
>
>3 to 18 speed gear boxes were used during the period in different
>bikes, so it seems like gearboxes should be pretty much fair game
>(should an early 50s Manx be limited to 4 when the Guzzi's had 5
>speeds (and many lathes had more than that - just an example that
>transmissions are a standard industrial thing, not something
>special).
I think that the idea was to keep things as simple and cost
effective as possible, you know what a five speed quaife costs and in order
to allow more riders to compete with limited budgets these restrictions
level the field somewhat. Perfet example is the new Scorpion class, These
machines are box stock and no one is running away from anyone and the
racing is very close. Racing has always been an expensive venture and many
times money would win.
>
>Bill Lomas converted his plebian and pushrod Royal Enfield single to
>DOHC in the early 1950s (and I've seen DOHC 500 Triumph conversions,
>etc and other people like Dennis Jones and Nougier built complete
>race engines) - can I do the same for my B50MX? What about the guys
>from Down Under who brought their homemade 500cc SuperHawk to Daytona
>a few years back? It looked quite period to me, and they didn't use
>any super exotic technology to do it, and I understand that it was
>quite fast?
The idea is to keep the vintage machines as they were produced for
the masses. I would like to see a class for these "one off" machines but
there are not enough around to warrant this.
>
>I've got plenty of pictures of nice triangulated space frames, spine
>frames, pressed steel monocoques (Arial Leader anyone - or maybe S90
>Honda?) etc from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Cantilever rear ends on
>Vincents, upside down telescopics on Guzzis, leading link forks on
>lots of bikes, hub center steering on Ner-a-cars and Difazio's AJS7R,
>Ernie Earles tubular aluminum chassis in the 1950s, BSAs titanium
>frames (bad job there) in the 1960s, etc.
Again, machines available to the every day rider is the norm.
>
>Granted, the DOHC B50 example may be pushing things a bit, but I'm
>trying to point out how hard it is to say one thing is a period
>modification and another isn't, especially when dealing with
>motorcycles where there have been soooooo many innovators/mad looneys
>with machine shops (I like to think I lean more towards the previous,
>but fear it is actually the latter). Yes, we can build a perfectly
>modern vintage bike with nothing but period modifications.
And thats the whole idea, to keep things within affordable boundrys.
>
>On the dirt side Don Morley's "Classic British Trials Bike" book
>certainly demonstrates that the factories did not run even close to
>what they sold as "Works Replicas", and I'm sure there are some
>C15/B40s running in AHRMA that have had the head angles changed etc.
>The factories certainly didn't have an exclusive lock on innovators -
>there were plenty of them in garden sheds too.
I would have to think that a lot more innovation came from the
sheds of riders where the factory got many of their ideas.
>
>I'll repeat that I'm pretty comfortable with the general state of
>the AHRMA rule book as it has evolved to the present - please don't
>take any of this as an attack against AHRMA mgmt/staff or the rules
>committees. Richard M. and others have been receptive to period
>specials (Richard, Al Gunter and others of that crowd certainly made
>plenty of them).
We need the input to make changes where needed and its folks like
yourself that help make it happen.
>
>I think my comments boil down to
>
>Engines: if you can't see it, ignore it, or at least don't make any
>restrictions that you can't check in with a couple of minutes of
>wrench work ("What's this - 5 valves in a Gold Star head??!!!").
I agree.
>
>Chassis: forks can be easily checked for tube OD - don't concern
>yourself with what is inside. Same with rear dampers - if they look
>good they are good (doesn't seem to be a problem with the rule book
>anyway). If a frame looks kind of like something that someone ran
>some time on some bike from 1940 to 1974 don't get flustered.
We don't. its usually a rider who will scream. I tell the screamer
to get one just like it if you think it helps that much.
>
>The more rules, the more the accusations of cheating, and the more
>the tech people get dragged into trying to rule on things that
>require the services of the "Center for Classic Motorcycle Research
>and Arcane Lore".
I couldnt agree more, we do try to simplify the rules for that very
reason even if the rule book dont always look that way....................
See you at Sears?............................
John Goodpaster
AHRMA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 07:00:57 -0700
From: harold
Subject: Re: VintDirt Kawasaki 370
Sounds like a Kawasaki Big Horn, a rotary valve single. The Carb lives
inside the left hand case as I remember. It also might be a Kawasaki
green streak which was a 250 as I recall---same rotary valve setup.
Sure its ANRMA legal. You'll have to figure out what class, but it
shouldn't be too difficult.
They're pretty quick bikes.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 05:14:39 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Rules and Eligibility (was T500 roadracer)
> I have no problem with folks getting the most out of their machines
> as long as the cubes are legal. I know you can only do so much before the
> reliability goe's south.
Hello John,
And things like bigger mainshafts on a Goldie, while it will improve
performance, should be almost as big a safety mod by preventing big
chunks of crankcase littering the track.
> >3 to 18 speed gear boxes were used during the period in different
> >bikes, so it seems like gearboxes should be pretty much fair game
> >(should an early 50s Manx be limited to 4 when the Guzzi's had 5
> >speeds (and many lathes had more than that - just an example that
> >transmissions are a standard industrial thing, not something
> >special).
> I think that the idea was to keep things as simple and cost
> effective as possible, you know what a five speed quaife costs and in order
> to allow more riders to compete with limited budgets these restrictions
> level the field somewhat. Perfet example is the new Scorpion class, These
> machines are box stock and no one is running away from anyone and the
> racing is very close. Racing has always been an expensive venture and many
> times money would win.
I thought the Classic 60s and Sportsman were supposed to be the "low
dollar" classes, and I have no problems with having something like
that. The GP classes should be just that and basically unfettered by
the rules other than "somebody did it back then".
> >Bill Lomas converted his plebian and pushrod Royal Enfield single to
> >DOHC in the early 1950s (and I've seen DOHC 500 Triumph conversions,
> >etc and other people like Dennis Jones and Nougier built complete
> >race engines) - can I do the same for my B50MX? What about the guys
> >from Down Under who brought their homemade 500cc SuperHawk to Daytona
> >a few years back? It looked quite period to me, and they didn't use
> >any super exotic technology to do it, and I understand that it was
> >quite fast?
>
> The idea is to keep the vintage machines as they were produced for
> the masses. I would like to see a class for these "one off" machines but
> there are not enough around to warrant this.
I'll have to differ here. I have yet to meet a racer who, upon
arriving home with his/her new race bike, didn't start in "improving"
on what the factory did. I feel that bikes modified in a period
style are actually MORE representative of the period than a stock
bike.
> >I've got plenty of pictures of nice triangulated space frames, spine
> >frames, pressed steel monocoques (Arial Leader anyone - or maybe S90
> >Honda?) etc from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Cantilever rear ends on
> >Vincents, upside down telescopics on Guzzis, leading link forks on
> >lots of bikes, hub center steering on Ner-a-cars and Difazio's AJS7R,
> >Ernie Earles tubular aluminum chassis in the 1950s, BSAs titanium
> >frames (bad job there) in the 1960s, etc.
>
> Again, machines available to the every day rider is the norm.
With a bit of work and time (and not that much money either) even
every day riders can have bikes with special frames - I can attest
to this.
> And thats the whole idea, to keep things within affordable boundrys.
Who's affordable? No Benelli 350 Quattro's in my garage, or even
Gold Stars. Unless you are going to implement a claiming rule (and
we all know how well that works/goes over) I think the idea of trying
to legislate "affordable boundaries" for a GP class is hopeless.
Again, let me stress that I've been largely discussing GP-class
bikes, not Sportsman type stuff, as the Sportsman class is of little
interest to me.
> I would have to think that a lot more innovation came from the
> sheds of riders where the factory got many of their ideas.
Since many factories did some might dumb things I think you're right.
> We need the input to make changes where needed and its folks like
> yourself that help make it happen.
It's nice to know that I'm managing to get my thoughts across - it
can be difficult to convey emotions over the Net, and I'm not wild
about emoticons.
> We don't. its usually a rider who will scream. I tell the screamer
> to get one just like it if you think it helps that much.
Ohhh, I LIKE that line!
> I couldnt agree more, we do try to simplify the rules for that very
> reason even if the rule book dont always look that way....................
It's a tough job, and I appreciate the effort everyone puts into it.
> See you at Sears?............................
I'm working away at it. The Ducati just needs new tires, and I've
got the cases apart on the Laverda. Busy, busy, busy.
cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #47
*****************************
VintDirt-digest Wednesday, August 6 1997 Volume 01 : Number 048
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 05:16:33 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Kawasaki 370
> Sounds like a Kawasaki Big Horn, a rotary valve single. The Carb lives
> inside the left hand case as I remember. It also might be a Kawasaki
> green streak which was a 250 as I recall---same rotary valve setup.
> Sure its ANRMA legal. You'll have to figure out what class, but it
> shouldn't be too difficult.
I think there might have been a KX370 - though it may have been a
KX450, and if so it was a piston port and is too late. If it is the
Big Horn it should be fine, and some were made up with Hindall and
Boyds and Stellings MX frames during the period.
cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 07:25:58 -0700
From: harold
Subject: Re: VintDirt Kawasaki 370
> and some were made up with Hindall and
> Boyds and Stellings MX frames during the period.
What was the deal on the old Green Streak? could it have been one of
these B&S frames you're speaking of? I had one in 1968, but don't
remember much about it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:22:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ace90@aol.com
Subject: Re: VintDirt Hodaka-guchi?
In a message dated 97-07-31 13:03:25 EDT, you write:
> I saw the Hodakability article, and they mention Hodaka LTD.
> as the manufacturer of Hodakas. I seem to remember that they
> were originally Yamaguchi, and tried to import in the early
> 60's for a while - wasn't it the Yamaguchi RunPet (bad translation
> of rabbit)?
> I understood that Pabatco saved them - for a while, anyway, by
> having them build a bike to their specifications.
>
> chuckk@doubt.com
Yamaguchi was the fore-runner of Hodaka. The Yamaguchi, 50cc "Auto-Pet"
design was used as a starting point for the original Hodaka Ace 90.
Ace90@aol.com (Avery Hensley, central CA)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:05:12 GMT+6
From: "Jeffrey W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
Add a Hodaka Dirt Squirt to my list of bikes. :-)
> From: "Jeffrey W. Spencer"
> To: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:46:25 GMT+6
> Subject: Re: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
> Reply-to: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> Let's see:
> '75 Hodaka Road Toad (my trials bike)
> M188 Bultaco Alpina (in progress, basket case)
> '66 Honda Trail-90 (in progress, more there than the Alpina)
> '64 Honda CT-200 (this is my wife's bike and amazingly, it's almost
> done)
>
> cheerz,
> Jeff
>
> > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:16:51 -0700
> > From: Jerry Erickson
> > To: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
> > Subject: VintDirt Any Penton guys around?
> > Reply-to: vintage-dirt@list.sirius.com
>
> > I have been on the list for a while sittin quit trying to get a feel for
> > what happenin. Not very much! How about everyone send me a list of
> > what you ride and I will summarize the results and send back to everyone
> > so that we can get an idea what or where the group is as far as interest
> > etc. This would only be Vintage Dirt bikes. I am sure lots of you
> > also have many bikes that don't fit this catagory.
> >
> > I'll get it rollin, I've got 5 Pentons, 3 Huskys, 2 Montesa Cotas, 2
> > Honda Scramblers and a 441 Victor.
> >
> > If there are any other Penton fans out there, I would especially like to
> > hear from you.
> >
> > Thanks, Vintage Jerry
> >
> >
>
> *******************************************************
> Jeffrey W. Spencer Email: jws@ee.umr.edu
> Electrical Engineering Phone: 573-341-4919
> University of Missouri-Rolla Fax: 573-341-4532
> Alternate Personal Email at: spencer@rollanet.org
> http://www.rollanet.org/~spencer/jeff/jeff.html
> *******************************************************
>
*******************************************************
Jeffrey W. Spencer Email: jws@ee.umr.edu
Electrical Engineering Phone: 573-341-4919
University of Missouri-Rolla Fax: 573-341-4532
Alternate Personal Email at: spencer@rollanet.org
http://www.rollanet.org/~spencer/jeff/jeff.html
*******************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:50:58 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Kawasaki 370
> > and some were made up with Hindall and
> > Boyds and Stellings MX frames during the period.
>
> What was the deal on the old Green Streak? could it have been one of
> these B&S frames you're speaking of? I had one in 1968, but don't
> remember much about it.
Hello Harold,
No, the Green Streak was the 238cc (I think) rotary single in
Kawasaki's own chassis. Boyd & Stellings were, as I recall, a race
car fab shop that started making MX frames with adjustable steering
heads and aluminum swing arms in the early 1970s.
"Dirt Bike" built a Hindall Big Horn, and I think a B&S TM400. Bob
Braverman's "Cycle Rider" (his magazine after "Cycle Guide") built a
Big Horn dirtbike using the CRDC aluminum monocoque frame.
Harry Hindall's personal 650 Triumph dirt bike weighed about 270-275
pounds dry if I remember the article correctly - nice stuff!
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 19:56:52 -0400
From: Harold
Subject: Re: VintDirt Kawasaki 370
Cool, re the green streak and the big horn stuff. Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:54:35 -0700
From: "Rick Bley"
Subject: VintDirt Re: Ducati
In my quest to race the Premier Lightweight class of AHRMA MX I have
thought that the Honda CL72 might be the most competitive mount.
Before I go to the expense and trouble of preparing a CL72 maybe I should
consider two other bikes - a Ducati Scrambler and a Maico iron barrel. BTW,
all three are mid-60's 250 cc machines.
I am wondering if you'll have any thoughts on this topic?
Thanks,
Rick Bley, AHRMA #90E/907, roadracer, MX and
Trials rider. 1972 CZ 125, 74 CZ 400, 64 CZ 125 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S.
FOR SALE: 1964/65 CZ Trials bikes $1,500
1974 CZ 400 MX $1,250
1975 Husky 125 MX $375
and looking for Honda CL72 bikes and parts for AHRMA MX project.
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #48
*****************************
VintDirt-digest Friday, August 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 049
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:19:11 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Re: Ducati
> Before I go to the expense and trouble of preparing a CL72 maybe I should
> consider two other bikes - a Ducati Scrambler and a Maico iron barrel. BTW,
> all three are mid-60's 250 cc machines.
Hello Rick,
I rode Michael Green's WCBR 250 Ducati scrambler at Sand Hill one
race. The thing I recall is how hard I had to work constantly
pulling the front end back in, as it (at least for me) kept trying to
wash out in the corners.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:25:24 -0700
From: "Rick Bley"
Subject: VintDirt CZ Trials
Brad;
First, thanks for the pix and literature.
I have a very nice, original 1964 vintage CZ Trials. It is either a 125 or
175; don't know exactly because I have yet to mic the bore and caliper the
stroke but I did have the head off to replace the gasket and it looked like
a 125 piston. I don't have a photo but you can see an identical model on
Michael Moore's Euro Spares web site. The exact address for the pix is
. My bike runs well, has good original
tires, working head and tail-light, etc. but is missing the carb cover, mud
skirts, and exhaust stinger.
I bought this bike with the intention of competing in AHRMA Trials (Premier
Lightweight) but everytime I take it to a National I wind up racing the
Saturday MX but not the Sunday Trials. At the same time I purchased this
bike I also got another complete engine, which is, I think, a 175.
The other bike is pretty much a rusty mess but does have a frame, engine,
forks, etc. and would be restorable with some effort.
I think, at this time, that I will hold out for selling all the Trials
stuff together. Who knows, I might get the yen next year to compete. OTOH,
if you have something really interesting to trade... hmm... I have always
wanted a really nice KR RZ350.
Rick Bley, AHRMA #90E/907, roadracer, MX and
Trials rider. 1972 CZ 125, 74 CZ 400, 64 CZ 125 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S.
FOR SALE: 1964/65 CZ Trials bikes $1,500
1974 CZ 400 MX $1,250
1975 Husky 125 MX $375
and looking for Honda CL72 bikes and parts for AHRMA MX project.
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #49
*****************************
VintDirt-digest Sunday, August 10 1997 Volume 01 : Number 050
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:26:40 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: VintDirt Fun
This post was on the Race list, and I thought that my reply might be
applicable to the other race oriented lists too.
***************
> Personally, I think that just shows the mindset of these guys (and
> why they're not faster). They just wanna have fun, not crash, not
> push it, etc. They get scared easily and aren't competitive enough
> to want to push through that to go faster. It's cool that they're
> out there enjoying themselves, but I'll never really understand the
> attitude fully. Racing for me is always a challange to go faster
> and beat people. If I ever get to a point where I'm not improving
> or where I don't want to try to improve or whatever, I'll stop and
> do something else. I don't get the attitude of these guys that've
> been racing for 30 years and haven't gotten any better for 25 years.
> Don't get me wrong, its great that they're out there having fun and
> all, but its not for me. Mark
Hello Mark,
As one of those who have been racing for close to 30 years, and who's
lap times seem to be pretty constant anymore, I appreciate that you
don't mind us out on the track. Yes, I've got a moderately low fear
threshold too but as long as I'm not scaring myself too bad I still go
out and have a good time.
Some riders get really obnoxious about the slower riders being on the
track and "in their way". I can see this if it is some professional
GP/National level race, but don't they have minimum qualifying times
in them anyway? At a club level people need to remember that if the
riders filling up the lower half of the bell curve all quit because
someone else decided they were too slow you'd probably see all the
race clubs fold up for lack of funds.
I hope that you are one of those people who has a skill limit so
high that you can keep improving every year and race all of your
life. Of course, it seems that if that is the case you'll either be
satisfied at some time with picking up a 1/100th of a second a
lap/year, or you'll be the perpetual world champion well into your
80s. :>
There are many different ways to fulfill your competitive urges, and
you may find that you move between them as your career continues. You
might decide to ratchet down the concern with ever improving lap times
at some time when you start to get diminishing returns on the effort
you put in and start focusing more of your competitive urges on doing
a better job of bike preparation, being more organized and prepared at
the track, building mega-project bikes in the hopes of getting a
competitive edge (or just because you are curious about whether your
ideas might be better than someone else), or even when you become
wealthy (or just have a spare bike or two) start helping out upcoming
riders and getting a one-step removed competition fix.
It seems to me that most of us wouldn't be racing if we didn't enjoy
it. Those of us who ran into our limits (or decided that further
progression wasn't worth the ever-increasing effort) can have just as
much fun racing at the back of the pack as at the front. In a way, we
might be better off. If you are at the front you've got to strive to
stay ahead - at the back we've got a clear goal of passing the entire
field! I've been at both the front and well down the pack, and as
long as I've found someone of a similar speed to race with I've had
lots of fun.
Just remember that there will always be someone faster than you are,
and slower people too. Try to avoid getting into an other-directed
goal set - by that I mean the "I'm not as good as Joe/Jane is so I
might as well hang it up" mindset. That kind of attitude is just
setting you up for grief, either sooner or later.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:30:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: DLF4KFA@aol.com
Subject: VintDirt Re:Penton Riders
Jerry,
Responding to your request of "What's everybody ride?"
I currently have the following: 3 Hodaka Wombats, Honda XL350, Fantic 300,
Bultaco Alpina, Honda Reflex, BMW K75, BMW R100GS/PD, Harley FLSTN, and I
just bought a Penton 175 Jackpiner! I haven't received the Penton yet.
Bought it from a guy in AL. It's very clean and complete, but does not have
the tail rack and tool bag. Do you know where I can find these items? I
always wanted a Penton, especially the Jackpiner, ever since they came out,
but couldn't afford one in those days. Sounds like you are really into
Pentons. Please email me (DLF4KFA@aol.com) and bring me "up to speed" on
what I need to know about Pentons. Are there any groups/clubs, etc. for
Penton owners? Where can I get more information about Pentons, and where can
I find an owner's manual for my Jackpiner? By the way, I live in Greenville,
SC. Where are you located? Thanks for your help!! David
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:07:00 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: VintDirt Re:Penton Riders
> what I need to know about Pentons. Are there any groups/clubs, etc. for
> Penton owners? Where can I get more information about Pentons, and where can
And if there is a Penton owners club let me know so I can put the
info on my club links page. That goes for any other small-marque
clubs that aren't listed there.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:26:46 -0700
From: Chuck Kichline
Subject: VintDirt Greeves Grief
It was a quiet, overcast Sunday - the neighborhood NEEDED a wake up call.
I decided to crank up the Greeves Griffon for the first time this year, and surprize,
no spark!
Checking out the Motoplat, I didn't find a pulse between the blue (big terminal on the
coil) and black (little terminal). The cable to the coil also has both a red and white wire
that have been capped, and I could get a pulse between the red and black.....
What's the function supposed to be on the wires? Is there a second circuit I can use??
chuckk@doubt.com
------------------------------
End of VintDirt-digest V1 #50
*****************************
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