LtWtRR-digest          Friday, August 8 1997          Volume 01 : Number 041




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Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 18:03:17 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: LtWtRR New 125 class

I just got the new AHRMA newsletter, and it mentions that they are
considering adding a Formula 125 class to the format.  This would
cater to the production roadracers like TA125 Yamahas, MT125R Hondas,
and RS125 Maicos.

Those of you with those bikes might want to check in with AHRMA to let
them know if you are interested in the class.  The AHRMA website
should be at www.ahrma.org.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:26:39 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: LtWtRR Fun

This post was on the Race list, and I thought that my reply might be
applicable to the other race oriented lists too.

***************

> Personally, I think that just shows the mindset of these guys (and
> why they're not faster).  They just wanna have fun, not crash, not
> push it, etc.  They get scared easily and aren't competitive enough
> to want to push through that to go faster.  It's cool that they're
> out there enjoying themselves, but I'll never really understand the
> attitude fully.  Racing for me is always a challange to go faster
> and beat people.  If I ever get to a point where I'm not improving
> or where I don't want to try to improve or whatever, I'll stop and
> do something else.  I don't get the attitude of these guys that've
> been racing for 30 years and haven't gotten any better for 25 years.
>  Don't get me wrong, its great that they're out there having fun and
> all, but its not for me. Mark

Hello Mark,

As one of those who have been racing for close to 30 years, and who's
lap times seem to be pretty constant anymore, I appreciate that you
don't mind us out on the track.  Yes, I've got a moderately low fear
threshold too but as long as I'm not scaring myself too bad I still go
out and have a good time.  

Some riders get really obnoxious about the slower riders being on the
track and "in their way".  I can see this if it is some professional
GP/National level race, but don't they have minimum qualifying times
in them anyway?  At a club level people need to remember that if the
riders filling up the lower half of the bell curve all quit because
someone else decided they were too slow you'd probably see all the
race clubs fold up for lack of funds.

I hope that you are one of those people who has a skill limit so
high that you can keep improving every year and race all of your
life.  Of course, it seems that if that is the case you'll either be
satisfied at some time with picking up a 1/100th of a second a
lap/year, or you'll be the perpetual world champion well into your
80s.  :>

There are many different ways to fulfill your competitive urges, and
you may find that you move between them as your career continues. You
might decide to ratchet down the concern with ever improving lap times
at some time when you start to get diminishing returns on the effort
you put in and start focusing more of your competitive urges on doing
a better job of bike preparation, being more organized and prepared at
the track, building mega-project bikes in the hopes of getting a
competitive edge (or just because you are curious about whether your
ideas might be better than someone else), or even when you become
wealthy (or just have a spare bike or two) start helping out upcoming
riders and getting a one-step removed competition fix. 

It seems to me that most of us wouldn't be racing if we didn't enjoy
it.  Those of us who ran into our limits (or decided that further
progression wasn't worth the ever-increasing effort) can have just as
much fun racing at the back of the pack as at the front.  In a way, we
might be better off.  If you are at the front you've got to strive to
stay ahead - at the back we've got a clear goal of passing the entire
field!  I've been at both the front and well down the pack, and as
long as I've found someone of a similar speed to race with I've had
lots of fun.  

Just remember that there will always be someone faster than you are,
and slower people too.  Try to avoid getting into an other-directed
goal set - by that I mean the "I'm not as good as Joe/Jane is so I
might as well hang it up" mindset.  That kind of attitude is just
setting you up for grief, either sooner or later.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American source of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

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End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #41
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LtWtRR-digest         Monday, August 18 1997         Volume 01 : Number 042




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Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:31:11 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: LtWtRR More stuff on the web site

I've added more items to the web site recently.

PICTURES:

Tony Foale has been scanning and supplying me with more photos.  There
are pictures of his spine-framed with concentric swing arm pivot 351cc
Yamaha race bike, the TZ250 engined QR1 racer with his alternative
front end and single-sided swing arm (like James Parker's RA/TZ, only
done about 8 years earlier), his Q-bike with Ducati bevel twin engine,
and the original BMW-engined QL outside the Cagiva factory. 

For the FF fans Tony sent along pictures of Malcolm Newell's 
rear-engined 1100cc Kawasaki FF bike, the Slug, taken in Malcolm's
workshop.

Stan Millard (HP by Stan) sent me 3 photos of the (still) very 
successful BSA B50 flat tracker he built.

John Dahl's CR500 Tulda road racer is on the track, and John sent me
an assortment of photos.

Michael Green (from NZ) supplied more pictures of the McIntosh framed
turbo Kawasaki road racer.

Three photos of me on Harold Park's 250 Ducati at Sears Point.

TEXT:

I've added the weights of more parts from my F750 Laverda racer to the
"Laverda weights" page.  If all goes well the engine will be buttoned
up by the end of the day and I can heave the entire thing on the scale
(only 5 thrashing days to the AHRMA national at Sears Point - oh no!)

The club links page got a new link to a Kawasaki EX250 page that has
just been created.

I've added an update on my EX250 + 125GP = ? project, with some 
preliminary flow bench charts and shots of the head with the new
downdraft intake ports/manifolds.

There may have been something else, but I can't recall it at the
moment.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 19:35:16 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: LtWtRR List server out of service

I just got confirmation from the sysops at my ISP that the list 
server was down over the weekend, but is supposed to be back up as of 
about 11:30AM PDT today.

Those of you who posted and had your messages disappear will need to 
repost.

Seemed kind of quiet to me . . .

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #42
***************************
LtWtRR-digest         Monday, August 25 1997         Volume 01 : Number 043




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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:06:49 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: LtWtRR Yes, it is THIS weekend

AHRMA/AMA Vintage Days West

Sears Point Raceway
Sonoma, California

Friday:  RR practice
Sat: Vintage/Singles/Twins/Bears RR and vintage observed trials
Sun: Repeat of the full RR schedule of Saturday

There is supposed to be some sort of vendor/swap meet all three
days, a motorcycle auction on Saturday, demo rides by Honda and
Kawasaki, etc etc.  Dick Mann is the Grand Marshall and, since Honda
is the featured marque, will demo the CR750 that he rode to the win
at Daytona at 2:30PM each day.

I'll be on a white 250 Ducati, #364, in the 250 and 350 GP.  I plan
to have the currently dead in the water Laverda as a static display
in the pit area (and if that doesn't interest you then you can look
at the new 748 that my pit-mate will be racing).

I've heard the track is expecting 10K spectators.  Bring your 
sunscreen as there isn't much shade at the track.

I'll be there Fri-Sun, and while I'll try to check the mail in the 
evenings if the lists have any problems ya'll may just have to 
soldier on for a few days.

Cheers,
Michael        
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:42:29 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: LtWtRR RS125 parts for sale

Arnold offered me these parts in case they would be of use for the 
EX250 + 125GP = ? project, but since I've already got wheels and will 
be building my own front end I told him I'd pass the info on to the 
list in case some of you could use the parts.

Cheers,
Michael

- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          "Arnold Van Kempen" 

I have spare 92' RS125 forks.  They came w/ my bike . I never used
them.    I have wheels w/ rains too. 2.15 and 3.00.

Arnold AFM#130 

------------------------------

End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #43
***************************
LtWtRR-digest         Monday, August 25 1997         Volume 01 : Number 044




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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 21:50:30 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: LtWtRR Sears Point AHRMA weekend (long indeed)

Here's a report for those of you who didn't get to attend.  I think
I've managed to include something appropriate to every list that is
getting a copy, but you may have to go through much of the writing to
get to the particular bit of info.

I was there for practice on Friday and the races on Saturday and
Sunday.  Today was one of those "I just raced in from the coast and
boy are my hands sore" days, so please excuse any typos that creep in
to this missive.

I put a fresh set of Avon tyres (90/90x100 and 100/90x100) on 
Harold's 250 Ducati Thursday morning.  As I like to do I put the new
tyres and the 80/90x18 that was on the front on the scales.  The 80mm
tyre weighed 7.5 pounds, the 90mm tyre was 8.375 pounds, and the 100mm
tyre was 11.75 pounds.  The 80F90R combo seemed to work pretty well at
the speeds I had been going, and saved 4.25 pounds of unsprung weight
that is well out on the radius of the wheel when being accelerated. 
Big tyres are not always better!  The bigger set of tyres worked well
(the race compound Roadrunners are NICE tyres) but I don't know that
most riders on horsepower-challenged bikes could appreciate the
difference between the two sets.

Friday saw several 916 Ducatis and a CB77 Honda crash in practice,
damaging the riders as well as the bikes.  I think one of the 916
riders was Bill St. John, and he burned his hand severely when it was
trapped between the tyre and exhaust for a bit during the crash.  He
did race later in the weekend, though reportedly a bit down-pack from
his usual front-runner position.  I came over the top of turn 3A on
the first lap of a practice session to find the right-coast Pete
Johnson and Raceco Transkontinental Guzzi sprawled in the middle of
the track, and I think it was a big Ducati that was off on the side of
the track.  Some people don't seem to get the idea of taking a lap to
warm the tires up and then not trying to "win" practice.

Tom Marquardt came from Colorado with his nice CB77 Honda, and
crashed in Turn 3 early on Friday, breaking some ribs, puncturing a
lung, and doing some damage to a hand.  He was able to circulate on
foot in the pits a bit on Sunday, but didn't look like he was
exhibiting peak performance.  Tom said that he just got into the turn
too hot, and Sears Point claimed another out-of-towner.

You might wonder what I was doing on the track at the same time as the
open BOTT bikes.  My pit-mate John Gillies let me take his 2v
rubberband 750SS and new 748 Ducati race bikes out to try them.  The
2v bike had been mildly hopped up, and was noticeably rougher and
narrower of powerband than the standard-engined 748.  The 748 had
beautiful power - seamless and willing to grunt out of the corners as
a big twin should.  It would rev right up too.  I decided that a
modern 750 is a bit faster than I care to think about racing, and
doesn't appreciate the full-hand deathgrip on the front brake that the
250 Ducati required.  You should learn to slide snugly up to the back
of the fuel tank BEFORE applying the brakes.  Either way you end up in
the same spot, it's just a bit more comfortable to move there of your
own volition.

On Sunday John was in one of the BOTT races on the 748 when two
faster riders from a later wave on the grid caught up to him in turn
7.  An EX500 Kawasaki rider (one of only two racing that weekend, and
I didn't see any GS500 Suzukis running) who didn't seem quite clear on
the concept of the overtaking rider being responsible for making a
safe pass tangled with John and ultimately 3 or 4 bikes ended up in
the dirt.  I think the one of the other riders received a broken
collar bone and some broken ribs, and John broke his left scapula.  He
was discharged in time to drive his stuff home after we loaded the
truck/trailer, and I went by his house and helped unload the heavy
stuff.  He's already hoping to be well in time to ride at Steamboat,
but isn't extremely optimistic about it.

One of the more interesting bikes on display at the track was a SOHC
Norton-powered BSA scrambler.  This bike was built by Mr. R. Mann, and
was to his usual high build quality.  I was told by the bike's owner
that DM had quite a time shoehorning the tall Norton engine (I think
it was an International, and not a SOHC Manx) into the BSA chassis.  I
asked why they didn't try to build a Les Archer replica, and was
toldthey thought it was more trouble than they needed to make the
special hybrid frame that Archer's bike had.  I hope I get to see this
run at an MX next year.  I didn't ask if it was going to be just a
static display bike.  I'm pretty sure I took a picture, but if not
I'll ask for someone to forward me one of their pictures for inclusion
on the web site.

It was pretty hot all weekend, but other than one small vortex that
came through and uprooted some awnings it wasn't too windy (though
Friday the wind was quite brisk in the afternoon).  The overall crowd
seemed a bit sparse to me, as did the size of the swap meet.  

I had the non-running Laverda SF2RR on display in my pits for the
weekend, and recieved a number of gratifying comments from people who
stopped by to look at it.  One person did mis-identify it as a Moto
Guzzi, but I couldn't get anyone to buy my statement that it was a
very rare ex-works 750cc Honda SuperHawk.

There was an AHRMA national trials on Saturday, up near the old MX
track.  I didn't get to go to it since I was road racing but saw a
number of the bikes scattered around the pits.  RL250 Suzukis,
Penton/Wassell and Saracen 125s, Greeves 250s, etc were spotted. 
There was a very pretty rigid 500 Norton with tele forks that didn't
seem to budge from the pits, alas.  Mike Fenner, who often organizes
the California AHRMA trials rounds, was road racing his Can Am 250
TNT.  He used to be quite competitive in AFM's 250 Production class on
this bike in the late 1970s/early 1980s and still seemed to be looking
pretty good in the 250 SOS two stroke class.

I got to meet a number of listers and email chums at the races -
Carleton Palmer from back east (even further back east than
Steamboat Springs) had his two 500 Vincents and seemed to be doing
fairly well. Bob Davis, John Hose, Sam Stoney, Ken Canaga, Stu Knigge
(who crashed Ken's DOHC Wood Rotax on Saturday but was back on the
track on Sunday), his Godfreyness, and others whose names slip my
befuddled mind at the moment.  Jim Davis and Eugene Mosier did very
well on their respective Hawk/FZR-SRX bikes, collecting an assortment
of trophies between them.  Fast guys, and they seem to be getting
faster.

Honda was the featured marque (the corporate 50th anniversary is
next year and Honda is busy celebrating its hemi-centennial) and
there were an assortment of CR750 replicas (and the Dick Mann
Daytona CR750 which DM rode each day of the weekend for a few parade
laps), and the Dresda (I think) CB750 ridden by Mitch Boehm.  The
latter was a nice enough bike, but the steadiness of the brazing beads
was no better than my often a bit shaky work.  When compared to the
dead-even TIG beads on an alumin(i)um-framed Spondon Yamaha single the
Dresda came in a distant second.  In fact, my friend the left-coast
Peter Johnson (of whom more anon) who is quite the wiz
fabricator/welder/machinist remarked that he wished he could weld as
evenly as the Spondon chaps.

There were two riders over from Japan, sponsored by Honda Revival on a
CL72 and CB77.  I'll have pictures of these very pretty bikes done up
as factory replicas soon.  The 250 had a Suzuki 4 shoe front brake
while the 305 had the Honda Revival magnesium replicas of the RC181
brakes.  Ken Awae, one of the HR owners and tuner for the weekend,
said that all the Mg brakes were sold, but he was thinking of doing
some in Al as the Mg drove the price up sharply.  The bikes had very
nice alloy tanks, and I was surprised to find that they were entirely
hand-hammered.  I told Ken I'd send him pictures of the English wheels
that Craig and I built, as it would speed the tank construction
noticeably, and he seemed quite interested in the tool. I shall
endeavour to remember to put those pictures on the web site as well.

My friend Peter J. did get the 325cc CR72 Honda to the track about
noon on Saturday, after losing several days of sleep whilst making
crankpins, remanufacturing a crank, making valves, etc.  He was
looking pretty fried on Saturday, and only a bit better on Sunday. He
did show up in time to make practice on Sunday, and placed 8th in the
350GP and far from last in the 500GP.  Not bad for someone who has
only raced a few times, and never before at Sears Point. Perhaps being
a former National-calibre pushbike racer had something to do with his
performance.  The CR had a noticeable (to Peter, the other riders and
the spectators) wobble but ran well during the races.  I helped Peter
gear the bike down a bit after practice as he could only get into
fifth gear.  It was fun to finally see the bike run, and when it was
started in the pits everyone stopped to look - much like when the
250-6 is started.  

The CR750s were nice, but I tend to go with Peter's definition of a
cool bike (like his CR72) - four strokes are better than two, two OHC
are better than one, sand castings are better than die castings,
magnesium is better than aluminum, and a factory racer is better than
a warmed over street bike.  Come to think of it, buy those standards
my CR216 is probably more trick than the CR750 - at least my bike
doesn't run a production frame. 

Another nice bike was a monoshock MBA 125cc GP twin roadracer.  I
chatted with the owner of this bit of rotary-valve exotica for about
20 minutes, and learned many interesting details of how hard it is to
find parts for 15 or so year old GP bikes from small manufacturers. 
It's nice to see bikes like the MBA and Peter's CR actually being
raced as they were meant to, rather than languishing in a collectors
museum.  Don't hide 'em, ride 'em!

My 250 race on Saturday started of well, with me being 2nd off the
line behind Michael Green's WCBR 250 Ducati.  I then worked my way
back to 5th by the end of lap 1, when I received the "meatball" flag
at start finish.  This normally means that something is falling off
the bike at the AFM races, so I pulled off in turn 3 to investigate,
but couldn't find anything wrong.  I started cruising back to the pits
well off the racing line until I remembered that under AHRMA rules
this flag was used to signify "report to the race director".  I pulled
into the hot pit and was given a stop and go penalty.  It seems my
good start appeared too good to the starting officials, though Green
and I kept our respective grid distances off the line and he wasn't
called in.  By then my mixup on the flags had cost me half a lap
instead of 10 seconds or so, so I finished well down the grid, though
I believe I did catch up to some of the slower riders and passed them.
 The 350GP race saw me (and many of the other 250s) left behind on the
start and I'm not sure where I finished.

Speaking of AFM/AHRMA mixups, several of the AFM regulars were caught
out on the starts as they were looking to the right of the grid where
the AFM flags are normally shown, and the AHRMA flags were being
displayed on the left side of the grid.

Harold Parks, owner of the Ducati I was riding, showed up with his
brother Dale and Godfrey on Sunday.  I mentioned to Harold that the
bike seemed to be getting a bit less peppy at high rpm, and he replied
that it had been rebuilt just a season or two ago.

In Sunday's 250GP I left the start unscathed by officialdom and had a
race-long dice for 5th place with Larry Poons (might have been Koons)
from NY.  He was racing a 250 Yetman-framed Ducati that used to be
raced by Michelle Bisson when it was owned by Fred Mork.  He had a bit
more power, but I was able to outride him through the Carousel and
turns 3, 8A, 9 and 10.  I think we swapped positions about 6 or 7
times during the 8 lap race, and I was told we got a bit of PA
air-time as the front runners were a bit more spread out and not as
closely matched.  Going into turn 11 on the next to last lap I was in
front but got a neutral on the downshift, and when I finally got a
gear it was first instead of second.  Since the Ducati depends a lot
on engine braking this caused some interesting moments, and Larry got
by me.  His lines became more defensive, and while I was on his tail
coming out of the chicane to the finish flag, and took the shorter
line (aiming at the flagger) I couldn't pull up enough to beat him to
the flag, and ended up 6th.  It was a great race, and Larry and I had
a nice chat afterwards.

Harold came up and advised me to spend more time tucked in, as it made
a noticeable 5 mph or so difference in the turn 9/10 area.  I followed
this advice in the 350GP race, and I think I probably turned my best
lap times of the weekend, but had no one to race with as the 350s had
cleared off and I was ahead of most of the 250s.  I finished 11th in
that race.

The Sound of Thunder race on Sunday was, I was told, a cracker.  Craig
MacLean and Cal Rayborn III hammered at each other for the lead on
Ducati Supermonos, and were neck and neck going into the chicane on
the last lap.  Craig had the line and Cal had to give way (or hit the
haybales).  3rd place was Orlandi on the 900SS engined 851, and James
Lickwar was 4th on the TL1000 Suzuki twin.

There were many fine performances by list members, but since I don't
normally watch the races I can't report them all.  There should be a
write up of the weekend in an upcoming "Sport Twin News", as
publishing robber baron-to-be John Sweeney was circulating all three
days.  At the least there will be a feature on Peter's CR72 and the
Japanese riders' CB/CL roadracers.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #44
***************************
LtWtRR-digest       Thursday, September 4 1997       Volume 01 : Number 045




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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 08:16:31 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: LtWtRR Interesting new web site

Ian Drysdale, designer and builder of the Drysdale V8 sport bike has
just gotten his web site up and running at:

 http://werple.net.au/~iwd/index.html

The URL seems to work fine with or without the www prefix.

There is design information on the V8 (inspired in part by the Moto
Guzzi V8), information on Ian and the others who helped make the bike
a reality, pictures, etc.  He intends to update the site regularly as
the bike moves toward production status.

He mentions that one of the projects that he had to push aside to
build the V8 is the 750cc version of the DRYTECH 2 wheel hydraulic
drive, 2 wheel steer 250 cc experimental desert racer.  Almost every
component of this ambitious project was fabricated or machined from
scratch.  I'm going to see if I can get him to put some pictures of
that up on his website too.

Check it out - neat stuff.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:29:22 -0700
From: "Bruce  C. Anderson" 
Subject: LtWtRR Weight and Balance

        What are the recommended front and weight bias on light weight bikes??

Thanks
Bruce
VF500f TY350 YSR50 CMRRA #56z

------------------------------

End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #45
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LtWtRR-digest        Friday, September 5 1997        Volume 01 : Number 046




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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:04:33 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: LtWtRR Weight and Balance

>         What are the recommended front and weight bias on light weight bikes??

Hello Bruce,

You might as well make the bike as nose heavy as you can get it, for 
as soon as the rider gets on board a light and/or short bike gets 
pretty tailheavy.

Cheers,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 21:01:35 -0700
From: "Bruce  C. Anderson" 
Subject: LtWtRR Weight and Balance

That should have been:  

         What is the recommended front and rear weight bias (with rider) for
a light weight bike?

Thanks
Bruce
VF500f TY350 YSR50 CMRRA #56z

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 21:02:10 -0700
From: "Bruce  C. Anderson" 
Subject: LtWtRR Weight and Balance

That should have been:  

         What is the recommended front and rear weight bias (with rider) for
a light weight bike?

Thanks
Bruce
VF500f TY350 YSR50 CMRRA #56z

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:09:35 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: LtWtRR Weight and Balance

> That should have been:  
> 
>          What is the recommended front and rear weight bias (with rider) for
> a light weight bike?

Hello Bruce,

Same thing goes as for a bare bike - I don't think it is likely for
you to be able to get a light bike too nose heavy. 

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: 05 Sep 1997 14:32:23 -0400
From: Richard Encelewski 
Subject: LtWtRR (A)Subscribe

subscribe

Richard Encelewski, Jr.            PHONE 313-323-0963
Product Test Engineer              FAX   313-390-3089
Certification Test Engineering     320hpdohcv8@e-mail.com
FMC-Allen Park Test Laboratory     PROFS RENCELEW

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 20:02:06 -0700
From: "Bruce  C. Anderson" 
Subject: LtWtRR Weight and Balance

>>          What is the recommended front and rear weight bias (with rider) for
>> a light weight bike?
>
>Hello Bruce,
>
>Same thing goes as for a bare bike - I don't think it is likely for
>you to be able to get a light bike too nose heavy. 
>
        Without the pilot the YSR50 is about 50/50 (83 lbs front/85 lbs
rear), with the pilot, its 38/62.  The foot pegs need to be raised by about
1" in order to prevent toe dragging, and the rear sets sold for this purpose
also move the pegs back 1".  This seemed counter productive to me,
especially when most 80cc engine installations come with a 2" extension of
the swing arm.  Which moves the CG forward.

        So I am trying to get an Idea of what works and head that way.
Should the bias be 50/50 with the rider???

        If I modify the clip-ons to move the bars forward of the forks, say
by 3 or 4" , in order to move weight forward, will the handling be adversely
affected??

        Is moving the bars forward of the forks valid way to shift some of
the weight forward?  On trials bikes rotating the bars in the clamps can
have quite a bit of impact in the way the bike steers.  The bars can only be
rotated a couple of inches for and aft at the grips, but if the bars are not
in the proper place the bike will be unstable, or push (understeer).  It
could be that you would only notice this effect at low speeds on a trials
bike,  but before I start making new clip-ons, I'd like to have some idea of
what extending the bars ahead of the forks might have.

        Another reason for wanting to move the bars forward, is to give the
pilot  a little longer/lower riding position.

Thanks
Bruce
VF500f TY350 YSR50 CMRRA #56z

------------------------------

End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #46
***************************
LtWtRR-digest        Friday, September 12 1997        Volume 01 : Number 047




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:02:33 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: LtWtRR Weight and Balance

>         So I am trying to get an Idea of what works and head that way.
> Should the bias be 50/50 with the rider???

Hello Bruce,

I think Bimota tried for 50/50, and a bit more probably wouldn't 
hurt.  I don't have any experience with the extremely short wheelbase 
bikes.
 
>         If I modify the clip-ons to move the bars forward of the forks, say
> by 3 or 4" , in order to move weight forward, will the handling be adversely
> affected??
>         Is moving the bars forward of the forks valid way to shift some of
> the weight forward?  On trials bikes rotating the bars in the clamps can

Craig often offsets the clipons forward to move the rider forward, 
and I've done the same on some of my bikes.  You will notice more of 
a sideways displacement of the hands rather than just pivoting them 
around the stem in a more fore/aft motion.
 
Cheers,
Michael 
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:25:52 -0400
From: "Hong, Davin" 
Subject: LtWtRR Introduction

Hello,

My name is Davin Hong.  I just subscribed to the list, and was asked to
provide a brief introduction, so here it goes:

I'm from Greenbelt, Maryland (right outside of D.C.), and I've been
riding for about a year and a half now.  I have a fairly thrashed, but
fun, '91 FZR600 (got it that way) that I'm slowly cleaning up.  I joined
the list because a couple of my racer friends are trying to get me to
run a 125 next year, and I figured I'd lurk and try to get some
information on what was involved.  At this point, I'm just trying to
gather as much information on them as I can -- what it's like to ride
them, how hard they are to work on, potential problem areas, costs, and
anything else.

Thanks for your time,
Davin

------------------------------

End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #47
***********************LtWtRR-digest        Friday, September 12 1997        Volume 01 : Number 048




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:16:03 -0700
From: John Holland 
Subject: Re: LtWtRR Introduction

Davin,

>I'm from Greenbelt, Maryland (right outside of D.C.), and I've been
>riding for about a year and a half now.  I have a fairly thrashed, but
>fun, '91 FZR600 (got it that way) that I'm slowly cleaning up.  I joined
>the list because a couple of my racer friends are trying to get me to
>run a 125 next year, and I figured I'd lurk and try to get some
>information on what was involved.  At this point, I'm just trying to
>gather as much information on them as I can -- what it's like to ride
>them, how hard they are to work on, potential problem areas, costs, and
>anything else.

Nice to meet you.  It may help to check out a few 125 oriented web pages.
Mine is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ekkensj/index.html

An East-coaster's page is at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/SUecker/

In addition, the Race list has a lot of 125 oriented chatter

>  To subscribe to race, send the following in the body (not the
>  subject line) of an email message to "listproc@micapeak.com":
>
>                       subscribe race Your Name Here
e.g.             subscribe race John Holland
>
>  This will subscribe the account from which you send the message
>  to the race list.


==========================================================
John "Goodboy" Holland             ekkensj@earthlink.net
WSMC#545                           1993 RS125R
My Roadracing Page:  http://home.earthlink.net/~ekkensj/index.html
==========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:21:01 -0400
From: "Hong, Davin" 
Subject: RE: LtWtRR Introduction

>Nice to meet you.  It may help to check out a few 125 oriented web
>pages.
>Mine is at:
>http://home.earthlink.net/~ekkensj/index.html
>
>An East-coaster's page is at:
>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/SUecker/
>
>In addition, the Race list has a lot of 125 oriented chatter

Thank you for the information.  I had already subscribed to the race
list, but I had no idea that these Web pages existed (AltaVista's not
all it's cracked up to be).  I haven't gone through these two sites
thoroughly yet, but I browsed them and was very presently suprised.  I
particularly appreciated your maintenance logs and race journals, as
those gave me a good idea of what's in store should I purchase an RS.  I
was also very excited to find the wealth of technical information at the
SUecker site.  In addition, that site's RS125 "for sale" listings gave
me a good idea of the price range for breaking into the class.

I just have a few quick questions, which I think you may be able to
answer.  On your "Parts List" page, I noticed that the most expensive
group of parts is the clutch, and that you've already gone through one. 
Do the RS125's tend to eat a lot of clutches?  I understand that as a
two-stroke, a fair amount of clutch slipping is required to keep it on
the pipe, but I had assumed that the relatively low power levels and wet
clutch (I assume it's a wet clutch) would minimize wear.  Also, how
difficult is it to rebuild/refresh the motor?  I understand that it
requires at least some minimal level of work between races (in between
race sessions?), but I don't have a feel for how many hours are
involved.

Finally, I noticed from your race reports that you started racing 125s
as a novice; if I started 125's, I would be doing the same thing.  Did
starting in the 125's, as opposed to FZR400's or EX500's, cause any
problems?  At Summit Point (the closest track to here), they combine the
novice and expert 125 races, and I'm a little concerned that I'll get
"run over" if I start with the 125's.

Again, thank you _very_ much for your time.  The results from your one
email basically tripled my knowledge base on RS125's, and I truly
appreciate it.

Sincerely,
Davin
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:23:32 -0400
From: "Hong, Davin" 
Subject: Mea Culpa: RE: LtWtRR Introduction

Sorry folks.  I forgot to check the reply-to address on the last
message.  My sincerest apologies.  Talk about a stupid newbie mistake
(and I've been doing this for years...).  Duh.

Sorry.

Davin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:48:15 -0400
From: "Rick Bley" 
Subject: Re: LtWtRR Introduction

Davin,

Having raced "slippery" Point I doubt if you will get run over. In fact, an
RS125, with its excellent handling and light weight may be the perfect bike
for that track.  Check out Chris Ulrich's article in the current issue of
Roadracing Tech.

Rick Bley, AHRMA # 90E/907, roadracer, MX and
Trials rider. 1972 CZ 125, 1974 CZ 400, 1964 CZ 125 Trials.
BMWMOA/RA, IBMWR, AMA. 1974 BMW R90S,

FOR SALE:  1964/5 CZ Trials bikes $1,500
                     1974 CZ 400 MX $1,250
                      1975 Husky 125 MX $375

Hickory (western North Carolina)

and...  looking for Honda CL72 stuff for AHRMA MX racer.

- ----------
> From: Hong, Davin 
> To: 'lightweight-roadrace@list.sirius.com'
> Subject: RE: LtWtRR Introduction
> Date: Friday, September 12, 1997 7:21 PM
> 
> >Nice to meet you.  It may help to check out a few 125 oriented web
> >pages.
> >Mine is at:
> >http://home.earthlink.net/~ekkensj/index.html
> >
> >An East-coaster's page is at:
> >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/SUecker/
> >
> >In addition, the Race list has a lot of 125 oriented chatter
> 
> Thank you for the information.  I had already subscribed to the race
> list, but I had no idea that these Web pages existed (AltaVista's not
> all it's cracked up to be).  I haven't gone through these two sites
> thoroughly yet, but I browsed them and was very presently suprised.  I
> particularly appreciated your maintenance logs and race journals, as
> those gave me a good idea of what's in store should I purchase an RS.  I
> was also very excited to find the wealth of technical information at the
> SUecker site.  In addition, that site's RS125 "for sale" listings gave
> me a good idea of the price range for breaking into the class.
> 
> I just have a few quick questions, which I think you may be able to
> answer.  On your "Parts List" page, I noticed that the most expensive
> group of parts is the clutch, and that you've already gone through one. 
> Do the RS125's tend to eat a lot of clutches?  I understand that as a
> two-stroke, a fair amount of clutch slipping is required to keep it on
> the pipe, but I had assumed that the relatively low power levels and wet
> clutch (I assume it's a wet clutch) would minimize wear.  Also, how
> difficult is it to rebuild/refresh the motor?  I understand that it
> requires at least some minimal level of work between races (in between
> race sessions?), but I don't have a feel for how many hours are
> involved.
> 
> Finally, I noticed from your race reports that you started racing 125s
> as a novice; if I started 125's, I would be doing the same thing.  Did
> starting in the 125's, as opposed to FZR400's or EX500's, cause any
> problems?  At Summit Point (the closest track to here), they combine the
> novice and expert 125 races, and I'm a little concerned that I'll get
> "run over" if I start with the 125's.
> 
> Again, thank you _very_ much for your time.  The results from your one
> email basically tripled my knowledge base on RS125's, and I truly
> appreciate it.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Davin
> >

------------------------------

End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #48
***************************
LtWtRR-digest       Tuesday, September 16 1997       Volume 01 : Number 049




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:45:27 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: LtWtRR Introduction and list owner comments

> the list because a couple of my racer friends are trying to get me to
> run a 125 next year, and I figured I'd lurk and try to get some
> information on what was involved.  At this point, I'm just trying to
> gather as much information on them as I can -- what it's like to ride
> them, how hard they are to work on, potential problem areas, costs, and
> anything else.

Hello Davin,

Welcome to the list.  You might wish to start by reading the archived 
digests on my web site.  

This list doesn't seem to generate much traffic, which surprises me
as the feedback I got when I first proposed the list made me think
that those interested in LtWtRRs were really looking for someplace
they could swap info/parts without having to wade through a bunch of
posts on other topics.  As was mentioned, you'll see stuff on the
two-stroke and race lists about 125s, and probably with greater
frequency.

Oh well, I'll give the list another 5 or 6 months before making any 
decision on keeping it available.   Maybe now that the race season is 
almost over people will spend more time at the computer and some sort 
of critical mass of posts will occur that will get the list traffic 
to increase on a regular basis.

You might get more information by posting specific questions to the 
list.   I think many people wait for someone else to propose a topic 
to comment on instead of realizing that they probably have a tip or 
comment that others would be interested in hearing.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:50:01 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: Re: Mea Culpa: RE: LtWtRR Introduction

> Sorry folks.  I forgot to check the reply-to address on the last
> message.  My sincerest apologies.  Talk about a stupid newbie mistake
> (and I've been doing this for years...).  Duh.
> Davin

Hello Davin,

Don't sweat it.  Actually, I think it was quite appropriate to post
it to the list as you asked more questions that could prompt answers 
from different people.

If you wanted to inquire about prices from someone or haggle over 
prices on parts, then a direct post is fine.  Thanking people for 
giving you information seems to me an excellent type of post to the 
list - maybe it will encourage some other people to share their 
information.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:44:03 -0700
From: John Holland 
Subject: Re: LtWtRR Introduction

Davin,

>I just have a few quick questions, which I think you may be able to
>answer.  On your "Parts List" page, I noticed that the most expensive
>group of parts is the clutch, and that you've already gone through one. 
>Do the RS125's tend to eat a lot of clutches?  I understand that as a
>two-stroke, a fair amount of clutch slipping is required to keep it on
>the pipe, but I had assumed that the relatively low power levels and wet
>clutch (I assume it's a wet clutch) would minimize wear.  

A wet clutch is standard for this bike.  By no means do they eat clutches.
Thus far, I've not replaced it.  It is holding up just fine.  In general,
they should be replaced annually but checked more often.  My understanding
is that the aftermarket dry clutches go much quicker. (My parts table may be
a little confusing.  I've listed both parts I've already ordered, and parts
I'm likely to order in the future.)

As far as clutch slippage, you certainly have to slip it on the start, but
if you get your gearing(both internal and external) right for the track, you
hopefully won't have to slip it much after you're at speed.


>Also, how
>difficult is it to rebuild/refresh the motor?  I understand that it
>requires at least some minimal level of work between races (in between
>race sessions?), but I don't have a feel for how many hours are
>involved.

I pull the top-end after every race and inspect/replace anything that is
suspect.  I am rather conservative in my replacement schedule.  I put in a
new piston/ring every 2-3 races and a new small-end bearing every 1-2 races.
I know of others who go a fair bit longer (6 races) without replacing the
top-end.  It is quite easy to do.

I have not tackled rebuilding the bottom end (crank and transmission)
myself.  For now, I'm happier leaving that job to a professional tuner.

>Finally, I noticed from your race reports that you started racing 125s
>as a novice; if I started 125's, I would be doing the same thing.  Did
>starting in the 125's, as opposed to FZR400's or EX500's, cause any
>problems?  At Summit Point (the closest track to here), they combine the
>novice and expert 125 races, and I'm a little concerned that I'll get
>"run over" if I start with the 125's.

Out here with WSMC, you start in the novice ranks competing against 125s,
250s, FZR400s, EX500s, ...  The class is 0-500cc, period.  When I first
started out, I wobbled around in the back.  As I got faster I was able to
easily beat some much larger bikes just because of my experience and laps
times coming down.  In the novice classes, the difference in skill level of
developing riders is quite profound.  You are racing almost entirely against
the rider, not the bike.  I'd feel fine starting out with the expert 125s.
You'll be a backmarker for a while, but as long as you ride clean,
predictitable lines; you'll not be in danger from or an impediment to the
experts.

>Again, thank you _very_ much for your time.  The results from your one
>email basically tripled my knowledge base on RS125's, and I truly
>appreciate it.

No problem.  I'm glad to help out.  Just keep in mind that I'm still
somewhat a inexperienced novice, so take my views with a grain of salt.

>Sorry folks.  I forgot to check the reply-to address on the last
>message.  My sincerest apologies.  Talk about a stupid newbie mistake
>(and I've been doing this for years...).  Duh.

Probably not a big deal.  This list doesn't exactly have a lot of traffic.


==========================================================
John "Goodboy" Holland             ekkensj@earthlink.net
WSMC#545                           1993 RS125R
My Roadracing Page:  http://home.earthlink.net/~ekkensj/index.html
==========================================================

------------------------------

End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #49
***************************
LtWtRR-digest      Wednesday, September 24 1997      Volume 01 : Number 050



 1. SCOTTA336@aol.com                    Subj: LtWtRR Big Bore 125?
 2. lhardy@national.aaa.com              Subj: Re
 3. "Michael Moore"   Subj: LtWtRR Administrivia - Digest headers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:58:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: SCOTTA336@aol.com
Subject: LtWtRR Big Bore 125?

Hey folks, 

I race a CR 125 in the Vet's Motocross class, where the classes are not
regulated by displacement.  Without wanting to lose the light weight and
lovely handling of the small motor, I'm tempted to bore the thing out.  There
are a number of companies who do this modification, mostly reputable.  Eric
Gorr wants about $450 for the job, LA Sleeve probably the same, and Rick
Petersen wants $600.  This is an all-inclusive package.  A 144cc bore is
typical.

Petersen will do a stroker crank, too.  This gives a 167cc displacement, but
he wants an astronomical price for it, on the order of $1500.

So here I am thinking....  I've got an RS 125 with a spare (damaged)
cylinder.  I've got a pair of old cranks.  How stupid would it be to run a
144 or 167cc RS 125?  No, I'm no cheater.  I run the bike with the 250s as it
is.  It'd probably be impossible to mask the changed exhaust note anyway.
 But what fun!  

Thoughts?  

- -A

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:43:18 -0400
From: lhardy@national.aaa.com
Subject: Re: LtWtRR Introduction

> From: John Holland 
> 
> Davin,
>  
> >Do the RS125's tend to eat a lot of clutches?   
> 
> A wet clutch is standard for this bike.  By no means do they eat clutches.
> Thus far, I've not replaced it.  It is holding up just fine.  In general,
> they should be replaced annually but checked more often. 

In two years of racing my 125, I've gone through two clutches. The
first one lasted through ~10 race weekends running 2 sprint races.
The second one lasted through ~7 weekends running 2 sprint races and
one 30 minute race per weekend. Both of those were stock Honda sets.
I've recently put in a set of Barnett plates (couldn't deal with their
springs - too stiff).

> >Also, how
> >difficult is it to rebuild/refresh the motor?  I understand that it
> >requires at least some minimal level of work between races (in between
> >race sessions?), but I don't have a feel for how many hours are
> >involved.
> 
> I pull the top-end after every race and inspect/replace anything that is
> suspect.  I am rather conservative in my replacement schedule.  I put in a
> new piston/ring every 2-3 races and a new small-end bearing every 1-2 races.
> I know of others who go a fair bit longer (6 races) without replacing the
> top-end.  It is quite easy to do.

I've been going 4 weekends per piston, putting in a fresh ring after
the second weekend. I put in a fresh small end bearing, new pin and
clips when I put in a new piston. I have gotten away with running
3 weekends on a piston/ring combo, but the one time I let it go to
a 4th weekend, I stuck a ring. As John said, working on the top-end
is very easy.

Unless you suspect a problem, you shouldn't have to do anything between
practice/race sessions except maybe change the jetting.

Good luck,

Laura Hardy
lhardy@national.aaa.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:21:25 -0800
From: "Michael Moore" 
Subject: LtWtRR Administrivia - Digest headers

I made a change to the digest setup yesterday that is supposed to 
pick up the author/subject line from each message and post it at the 
top of the digest.

This list has started to appear in the digests, but for some reason 
only new message subject lines (that don't start with "Re:") are 
showing up properly.  

I've notified the admin folks at my ISP to see if they can tell me 
how to fix this, or fix it themselves.  Until then, you'll just have 
to put up with a less than completely helpful listing of digest 
messages.

Thanks,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 5 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364

------------------------------

End of LtWtRR-digest V1 #50
***************************