Laverda Digest #21-30
laverda-digest Wednesday, March 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 021
1. FnGG Subj: Laverda Goin on safari
2. LErkie4877 Subj: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #20
3. David Porter Subj: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
4. "Michael Moore" Subj: Re: Laverda Exhaust systems
5. "Geoff Pascoe" Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
6. smlnjack@toolcity.net Subj: Laverda Exhaust
7. Martin Chudley Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:01:29 EST
From: FnGG
Subject: Laverda Goin on safari
Folks:
I've been turning it over, and I think a hunt for a used SFC 1000 or
RGS is my next endeavor. As opposed to finding a yellow Guzzi 1100i Sport, for
more money than I have, a well attended-to Laverda would probably suit my
riding as well, and serve my heart much better.
I've seen mention of a book on the list, and would like to know more
about it. I'd like to start "shopping", and would welcome any and all info on
the later big triples that I can possibly get.
Understand my last Laverda was a Jota, and required very little messing
with, as I'm not a racer or maniacal wrencher. I'm interested in others'
experiences with the later (120) iterations, so far I've heard nothing off-
putting.
Someone in the Forum mentioned that a new triple will likely be a little
to race-oriented for my type of riding and I tend to agree, aside from cost!
Soif I'm going back into the beast-territory I feel the big SFC/RGS fits the
bill.
thanks for your attention,
Frank < FnGG@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:07:08 EST
From: LErkie4877
Subject: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #20
Jack asked about the use of 2- or 3-into-1 exhausts. I'm certainly not
qualified to address the physics of this. But, of course, that doesn't
discourage me from expounding on the matter :-)
I believe the 3-to-1 exhaust system on my Mirage is the result of aesthetic
considerations more than anything else. You've got the problem of exhausting
the gasses of three cylinders, whaddaya gonna do? Have three mufflers like
the Vetter designed Triumph of the 1970's? Fours mufflers like the Suzuki
water buffalos of yore? Many people believe a bike looks "right" with a
muffler on either side of the rear wheel. Furthermore, two mufflers double
the volume, permitting less restrictive mufflers whilst maintaining the
required sound reduction. Personally, I believe the aftermarket single
mufflers that were so common when the Japanese multies first came to dominate
the market were the result of economy, as much as anything else. The
manufacturers could sell cheap bits to the go-fast guys, making a decent
profit because they were selling half the equipment the manufacturer was
providing. Back then, no one worried about the noise, as the laws were lax.
On my triple, the 3 pipes join under the engine in a single tube. I
understand that some such tubes are quite narrow (mine is wide) and effect a
performance reduction due to the backpressure that results. In those cases,
it probably makes no difference if the exhaust gas then goes into one or two
mufflers.
That's my 2 cents worth....
By the way, I have the Jota as well as the quiet pipes for my triple. There
is no doubt which set sounds better to my ears. Question is, has anyone run a
comparison on a dyno to measure what performance differences my actually
result from these two very different exhaust systems?
- -Lawrence
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:11:45 -0500
From: David Porter
Subject: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
I am a new subscriber with a foul-running '84 RGA Jota (spitting and hesitating at low rpm, running rich with good power but black plugs at high rpm). I am trying to collect information on carb jetting, slides, needles, anything. This bike has stock ca
here they need to go during the week? Thanks for the help.
David Porter
porterdm@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:45:43 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: Laverda Exhaust systems
Hello Jack,
One small reminder for everyone - you might want to send an
individual copy of a message to each list rather than cc'ing them -
sometimes that ends up being picked up (if a respondee says reply to
all addresses), and you get these massive cross-post episodes, which
usually seems to ultimately PO somebody on some list, who ends up
flaming all the lists, etc etc.
Back to exhausts:
The shared exhausts depend upon the pressure and acoustic waves in
the exhaust system from the different cylinders
reinforcing/cancelling the waves from the other cylinders. If you
get it right you can get a nice boost in scavenging or help stuff
escaping charge back past the exhaust valve and into the combustion
chamber.
When we had the SF2RR on Craig's dyno we were using the 2-1 that I
built to his spec (not very much like the poorly designed SFC pipe).
This was giving a solid 74-75 bhp at the rear wheel. We slipped off
the tailpipe and put on two individual megaphones to see what would
happen (the head pipes on a 360 degree exhaust are the same either
way - this is NOT true of 2-1 vs 2-2 on 90 degree twins). The result
was a loss of 20 bhp and very poor running. We didn't bother to try
and tune it out, figuring we weren't likely to end up better than
what the 2-1 was doing.
When Craig was in England he worked for Mr. Graves, the owner of the
Quantel Cosworth Norton racer. Graves was a director of Cosworth
Eng, and Craig learned that Keith Duckworth, much as he disliked the
massive compromises in design forced upon him by Nortons, felt that
at least having the crank phasing of 360 wasn't such a bad thing in
re running a 2-1 exhaust on the bike.
The dual mufflers on a street bike do help to provide volume so as to
lower the restriction, but I'd certainly run a 2-1 on a 750 or a 3-1
on a 120 triple. I think a 180 triple might work best with the two
matching cylinders going into a 2-1 and the other cylinder running
alone. Generally, 180 degree twins don't run well with a 2-1 as the
phasing is messed up. You might end up with the 2-1 cylinders
running a bit better - only a dyno and some experimentation will
tell.
There are some books that deal with this listed on my techbook
bibliography page if you want to do some reading.
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:50:32 +1030
From: "Geoff Pascoe"
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
>>> David Porter 03/18/98 01:41PM >>>
>> This bike has stock cams (I think), Moto Witt ignition, individual K&N >>filters, and .......
You may consider 'junking' the Filters and putting an original Air Box back on! Not that this will be the cause of your problem, but I believe the general consensus is (as far as Laverda Triple Air filtration goes), original is best!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:43:05 -0500
From: smlnjack@toolcity.net
Subject: Laverda Exhaust
To all and sundry who replied to my query, many thanks. The one response
which puzzled me slightly was the one which told me to "blow it out my ass".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:32:57 GMT
From: Martin Chudley
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
On Mar 18, 2:50pm, Geoff Pascoe wrote:
> Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
>
> You may consider 'junking' the Filters and putting an original Air Box back
> on! Not that this will be the cause of your problem, but I believe the
> general consensus is (as far as Laverda Triple Air filtration goes),
> original is best!
>
>-- End of excerpt from Geoff Pascoe
I suspect this is the problem I have with my Mirage/Harris. All it has
in the way of filtration is 3 very short pretty aluminium bellmouths with
coarse gauge mesh over their openings.
Given that a) I like the bellmouths
and b) I there's nowhere to put any bigger filters or any kind of
airbox.
what can I do to tune for more even running? The carbs are standard 36mm
DellOrtos. Needle clip on the middle groove, 155 mains & 70 idle jets.
Fuel pumps not disconnected.
It does go quite well already but in traffic I don't really trust it to idle
reliably and on the track it will easily bog if I open the throttle too
quickly.
- --
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #21
****************************
laverda-digest Wednesday, March 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 022
1. "Michael Moore" Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
2. "Michael Moore" Subj: Laverda Quick stats
3. gbb@creighton.edu Subj: Re: Laverda Exhaust
4. thumper@hughes.net Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
5. smlnjack@toolcity.net Subj: Laverda Re: Lav Exhaust systems
6. smlnjack@toolcity.net Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 04:51:49 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
> I suspect this is the problem I have with my Mirage/Harris. All it has
> in the way of filtration is 3 very short pretty aluminium bellmouths with
> coarse gauge mesh over their openings.
Hello Martin,
Ditch the coarse screens - they don't do the airflow any good when
tested on the flow bench, and the occasional small bug should go
straight through the engine without damage.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 05:07:05 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Laverda Quick stats
It appears there are about 43 subscribers on the list after being up
for two weeks. The message traffic is looking pretty good - keep it
up!
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 9:18:42 CST
From: gbb@creighton.edu
Subject: Re: Laverda Exhaust
Hopefully someone with a sense of humor just couldn't resist.
Don't take it personally, yet.
Geo.
>
> To all and sundry who replied to my query, many thanks. The one response
> which puzzled me slightly was the one which told me to "blow it out my ass".
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:37:59 -0800
From: thumper@hughes.net
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
David Porter wrote:
>
>
> here they need to go during the week? Thanks for the help.
>
> David Porter
> porterdm@erols.com
Have you checked out the coils? See if the R in both primary and
secondary windings are close to being the same.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:50:42 -0500
From: smlnjack@toolcity.net
Subject: Laverda Re: Lav Exhaust systems
.
>
>> That story you told about the twin wilth a 20 HP loss with dual mufflers is
>> astounding!
>
>Those were straight through megaphones - nothing muffled about them!
>
>Cheers,
>Michael
>Michael Moore
So Michael, from what you're saying, can I infer that some baffling is
desirable to set up that reverse wave or whatever you call it back up to
the combustion chamber? I had this theory explained several years back by
an engineering friend of mine who explained that was the purpose of the
reverse cone mufflers that Norton used to use on the earlier commandos. He
said however, that it was more marketing hype with them as they were only
good for a specific rpm and on a street bike, unlike a race bike, that
condition does not obtain. One of the reasons I ask is that I have a set
of Dunstall Decibel silencers on my Guzzi, the engine of which has had
extensive work by Manfred Hecht. Rather than go for my lungs with
LaFranconi' s or something, but desperate to get rid of the terribly
restrictive stock mufflers, I went for the Dunstalls. They're pretty
clapped out. All that's inside is a long perforated tube of perhaps an
inch plus in dia. and at the end of the tube is a flange which reaches out
to the inner circumference of the can itself. Not much back pressure but a
little nonetheless. Somehow the holes running the length of this
interior tube attenuate the sound to some degree.
So that I can better interpret what you'were trying to tell me in your
earlier posting re the SF2RR, that is a 360 degree twin correct? Does that
mean that the pistons rise and fall together, like a Norton, one on
compression and one on exhaust, or when one is up, is the other down?
Thanks for answering my dumb questions. I didn't get much book larnin' in
my youth.
Regards,
Jack
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:26:56 -0500
From: smlnjack@toolcity.net
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
At 12:32 PM 3/18/98 +0000, Martin Chudley wrote:
>On Mar 18, 2:50pm, Geoff Pascoe wrote:
>> Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
>>
>> You may consider 'junking' the Filters and putting an original Air Box back
>> on! Not that this will be the cause of your problem, but I believe the
>> general consensus is (as far as Laverda Triple Air filtration goes),
>> original is best!
>
I never heard this but that doesn't mean it's not true! I tend to doubt it
however.
>
>>-- End of excerpt from Geoff Pascoe
>
>
>I suspect this is the problem I have with my Mirage/Harris. All it has
>in the way of filtration is 3 very short pretty aluminium bellmouths with
>coarse gauge mesh over their openings.
>
>Given that a) I like the bellmouths
> and b) I there's nowhere to put any bigger filters or any kind of
> airbox.
>what can I do to tune for more even running? The carbs are standard 36mm
>DellOrtos. Needle clip on the middle groove, 155 mains & 70 idle jets.
>Fuel pumps not disconnected.
>
>It does go quite well already but in traffic I don't really trust it to idle
>reliably and on the track it will easily bog if I open the throttle too
>quickly.
>
>--
On my 3C RS someone in the distant past removed the airbox and substituted
K&N air filters. It seems to run quite well although I have no standard of
comparison with the stock version. I find it hard to believe however, that
the lack of an airbox would have a negative effect on a design that old.
I know some of the bikes produced today capture a ram effect from a proper
airbox and it's all part of the equation. Having said this, I am certainly
no one to make an effective judgement on this matter as what I don't know
about physics and engines would fill volumes. My triple also bogs if I
give it full throttle and I was told, upon inquiry, by rather knowledgeable
folks that this was normal and that my rev's were simply too low at the
time for full throttle. This was at like 70 -75 mph! Ohc machines take
some getting used to, at least on my part.
Jack
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #22
****************************
laverda-digest Wednesday, March 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 023
1. Bill MacCracken Subj: Laverda Re: RGS/RGA Jetting
2. Richard Taylor Subj: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
3. FnGG Subj: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
4. smlnjack@toolcity.net Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
5. "Ann M. Calandro" <76726.2625@compuserve.com> Subj: Laverda Aior boxes
6. thumper@hughes.net Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:51:17 -0800
From: Bill MacCracken
Subject: Laverda Re: RGS/RGA Jetting
Jetting for the Stock 32mm carbs is:
main 108
idle 65
k1 needle at second notch
50/3 slides
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:59:23 +0000
From: Richard Taylor
Subject: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
At 16:01 17/03/98 EST, you wrote:
>Folks:
> I've been turning it over, and I think a hunt for a used SFC 1000 or
>RGS is my next endeavor. As opposed to finding a yellow Guzzi 1100i Sport,
for
>more money than I have, a well attended-to Laverda would probably suit my
>riding as well, and serve my heart much better.
> I've seen mention of a book on the list, and would like to know more
>about it. I'd like to start "shopping", and would welcome any and all info on
>the later big triples that I can possibly get.
SFC1000 is higher spec on the brakes, better frame (lowers the engine
compared to a Jota, for better handling), better forks.
Power is about the same, considerably smoother, maybe a touch more for an
SFC, and you can rev another 500 -1,000 higher. Weight is about the same,
sound - as loud!
I think you can fit tubeless tyres to the SFc wheels, but I never did.
Anyone confirm this? If so, you may well get a far better choice of tyre
compared to a Jota. Makes quite a difference.
I've tried a Guzzi Sport, and I'd rather have a triple any day. (If they
just stuffed some modern equipement around the old 120 engine, it would be
better than the Guzzi - me no impressed)
> Understand my last Laverda was a Jota, and required very little messing
>with, as I'm not a racer or maniacal wrencher. I'm interested in others'
>experiences with the later (120) iterations, so far I've heard nothing off-
>putting.
The SFC1000 is my favourite. I'm biased. I'm no mechanical guru either, but
the only two things that seemed to matter were frequent oil changes, and
frequent tunes to keep the power spot on.
> Someone in the Forum mentioned that a new triple will likely be a
little
>to race-oriented for my type of riding and I tend to agree, aside from cost!
>Soif I'm going back into the beast-territory I feel the big SFC/RGS fits the
>bill.
The new triple (and the new twin for that matter) are not of the same
sports-tourer mould. They are/will be out-and-out pseudo-racers with very
few practical touches. This just reflects current motorcycle usage, but its
definitely not very convenient! I didn't realise how practical the old
triples were. The other trouble, if you're an old triple fan, is that
you're likely to be fairly tall (bit of a generalisation, maybe!?), but
modern bikes are a damned sight smaller than Jotas, just to get the centre
of gravity low. I think this one point is the cause of _my_ trouble! But
then, I'm 6'5"...
Go for the SFC, I say...
- --
Regards, Richard Taylor. International Laverda Owners Club -
http://www.richtea.demon.co.uk/laverda
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:14:40 EST
From: FnGG
Subject: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
Rich:
Thanks so much for the reply! Agreed, oil changes and other "regular"
maintenance were all I needed to do with the Jota. It's just that reading some
of these mechanical geniuses' comments here gets me thinkin' they've already
forgotten more than I could ever learn!
I'll be looking at both whenever possible. The RGS is slightly softer,
but has many attributes. It's so true, once you've loved the older triples
there's very little that comes close! I'm 5'11.9", my wife felt the Jota made
me look like I was hangin' on...so be it!
Nothing good comes easy!
regards,
Frank < FnGG@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:55:01 -0500
From: smlnjack@toolcity.net
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
At 04:51 AM 3/18/98 -0800, Michael Moore wrote:
>> I suspect this is the problem I have with my Mirage/Harris. All it has
>> in the way of filtration is 3 very short pretty aluminium bellmouths with
>> coarse gauge mesh over their openings.
>
>Hello Martin,
>
>Ditch the coarse screens - they don't do the airflow any good when
>tested on the flow bench, and the occasional small bug should go
>straight through the engine without damage.
>
>Cheers,
>Michael
>Michael Moore
Wow! Something a simple as wire mesh screens have a detrimental effect on
airflow. Tell me, Michael, what do K&N's do to the flow? Equally bad?
>http://www.eurospares.com
>AFM/AHRMA #364
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:04:31 -0500
From: "Ann M. Calandro" <76726.2625@compuserve.com>
Subject: Laverda Aior boxes
Jack writes
> David Porter wrote:
> >
> >
> > here they need to go during the week? Thanks for the help.
> >
> > David Porter
> > porterdm@erols.com
> Have you checked out the coils? See if the R in both primary and
> secondary windings are close to being the same.
I meant the same between each coil, not that primary and secondary are
the same in the same coil. Just wondering if you have failing coils.
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #23
****************************
laverda-digest Wednesday, March 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 024
1. Stephen Wilcox Subj: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #23
2. "Michael Moore" Subj: Re: Laverda Re: Lav Exhaust systems
3. "Michael Moore" Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
4. "Michael Moore" Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:00:25 -0800
From: Stephen Wilcox
Subject: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #23
Bill wrote:
> Jetting for the Stock 32mm carbs is:
> main 108
> idle 65
> k1 needle at second notch
> 50/3 slides
Hmm. I guess "stock" has various interpretations. Your numbers look
like a cross between numbers I've seen in a couple of places. I'm
curious where they came from. Which triple were they "stock" for?
Here are the numbers from my RGS parts book and a DelLorto factory
tuning guide, plus what was in my bike when I got it and what I have
now. ("when bought" = no airbox, factory 3-1, 7C cams, "now" = no
airbox, Jota pipes, Axtel cams)
RGS "Stock" Del'Orto My RGS My RGS
(From parts manual) Recommendation When bought Now
Main 125 108 132 125
Idle 65 65 64* 70
Starter 70 60 75 65
Needle K1 K3 K4 K3 1st notch
Slide 60/2 60/1 60/3 50/3
* ??? Not sure where these jets came from, Del'Lorto does not list
a 64 as an available size idle jet.
Stephen Wilcox
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:58:46 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: Laverda Re: Lav Exhaust systems
> So Michael, from what you're saying, can I infer that some baffling is
> desirable to set up that reverse wave or whatever you call it back up to
> the combustion chamber? I had this theory explained several years back by
Hello Jack,
Not really. Generally, the less restriction the better - this is why
race car mufflers that have to meet a given decibel rating are often
bigger than a passenger car muffler - the greater volume lets them
knock of noise with less restriction on the exhaust.
> an engineering friend of mine who explained that was the purpose of the
> reverse cone mufflers that Norton used to use on the earlier commandos. He
> said however, that it was more marketing hype with them as they were only
> good for a specific rpm and on a street bike, unlike a race bike, that
Craig doesn't bother with reverse cones on the megaphones. For
silencing, we either put just a stack of SuperTrapp discs on the end
of the megaphone (with enough of them, about 25 on the 750, there is
no bhp loss and the bark is reduced), or use a copy of a mechanical
baffle w/discs that SuperTrapp used to sell in the early 1980s for
fitment to Bassani, Kerker, etc when the stock absorption silencers
(those perforated tubes wrapped with rock wool or fiberglass) blew
all their packing out. Craig has been making up small batches of the
mechanical baffles.
> condition does not obtain. One of the reasons I ask is that I have a set
> of Dunstall Decibel silencers on my Guzzi, the engine of which has had
> extensive work by Manfred Hecht. Rather than go for my lungs with
> LaFranconi' s or something, but desperate to get rid of the terribly
> restrictive stock mufflers, I went for the Dunstalls. They're pretty
> clapped out. All that's inside is a long perforated tube of perhaps an
> inch plus in dia. and at the end of the tube is a flange which reaches out
> to the inner circumference of the can itself. Not much back pressure but a
> little nonetheless. Somehow the holes running the length of this
> interior tube attenuate the sound to some degree.
Craig says the absorption-type baffles aren't very efficient, plus
they always get louder with the passage of time as the packing blows
out or is carboned up.
> So that I can better interpret what you'were trying to tell me in your
> earlier posting re the SF2RR, that is a 360 degree twin correct? Does that
> mean that the pistons rise and fall together, like a Norton, one on
> compression and one on exhaust, or when one is up, is the other down?
Yes, that is a 360 twin - both rising and falling together. The
Laverda 750 is probably what the English manufacturers wished they'd
been making all those years - plenty of crank bearings and hell for
stout. The Norton does have a good cylinder head though - just a
stupid crank and a gearbox underdesigned for a 750 racer.
> Thanks for answering my dumb questions. I didn't get much book larnin' in
> my youth.
I picked up most of this after getting out of college - you just have
to get the books (look at my tech book bibliography page on the web
site) and start reading them. You can read around a lot of the
physics/math, but as Tony Foale is quick to point out you'll do a lot
better by getting a solid grounding in those subjects.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:58:47 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
> about physics and engines would fill volumes. My triple also bogs if I
> give it full throttle and I was told, upon inquiry, by rather knowledgeable
> folks that this was normal and that my rev's were simply too low at the
> time for full throttle. This was at like 70 -75 mph! Ohc machines take
> some getting used to, at least on my part.
Hello Jack,
That bogging is why all the modern bikes tend to have CV carbs -
the owner doesn't have to learn any throttle control as the carbs do
it for them.
Craig has been having me disable the pumps on Dell'Ortos for years,
and others have done it with good results too.
Also, people tend to get into this thing about carbs being too big -
if you don't whack them open at zero rpm, rather feed in as much
throttle as the engine will take, they won't bog. A little carb
will let you whack them open as the velocity won't drop as much, but
then they'll be restrictive on top end.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:58:47 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
> Wow! Something a simple as wire mesh screens have a detrimental effect on
> airflow. Tell me, Michael, what do K&N's do to the flow? Equally bad?
Hello Jack,
No, K&Ns flow quite well, BUT as with all filters you have to get a
big enough one. It is similar to what Walter Kaaden at MZ said about
expansion chambers - he knew when the design was getting right when
it required the relocation of several major parts or couldn't be put
on the bike without dragging on the ground.
Some of the Dell'Orto plastic air straighteners came with this coarse
plastic mesh on them - it made a definite drop in flow on the flow
bench compared to the open stack, and the plastic Dell'Orto stacks
don't flow anywhere near as well as the spun aluminum Malossi items
do.
My 22mm Mikuni carb kit for my Honda 90 came with a cylindrical K&N
that had similar, or maybe even slightly greater, area to the the
K&Ns you'd often see fitted to four cylinder bikes that have junked
the airbox. Unoiled (or at least with just the light factory
coating) that size filter slightly restricted flow on the 22mm carb.
Now think what it will do on something with the cylinder 3X bigger.
I've noticed that some of the HD Sportster race bikes had huge K&N
filters on them - maybe 8-12" OD by 12" long. Those bikes obviously
had seen some dyno time.
I use K&Ns when I use filters. They last the lifetime of the vehicle
- - got one in my van too. The foam filters deteriorate with age.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #24
****************************
laverda-digest Thursday, March 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 025
1. "Michael Moore" Subj: Re: Laverda Air boxes
2. "Michael Moore" Subj: Re: New Laverda list
3. "..Steve Gurry" Subj: Laverda RGS jetting
4. "Robert Milders" Subj: Re[2]: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:58:46 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: Laverda Air boxes
> I have the same modification to my 3CL and had been told to put the stock
> air box back on.,
If possible, a big shared filter is nice, as it will provide a
reservoir of filtered air that the engine can draw upon.
> at a particular RPM. I have found that any manual carb needs to be
> adjusted to suit the RPMs. Over the years I have learned how to adjust the
> throttle opening to fit the motors demand. It is especially critical on my
> Moto Motini 3 1/2 as it has so little power that the slightest drop in
> power can be felt right away.
Do some trials riding and you'll get a quick appreciation of throttle
control. Sammy Miller did OK as a road racer.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:12:47 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: New Laverda list
> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:24:42 +0000
> From: "bob.andren"
> Subject: Re: New Laverda list
> To: mmoore@eurospares.com
> Reply-to: bob.andren@MCI2000.com
> Michael,
>
> I may have my facts wrong here, but.... Last year some fellow was selling
> two Laverda 150cc horizontal single engines and I seem to remember that you
> bought them with the idea of putting together a racer!? If it was you,
> read on. If not, ...
> Anyway, I just bought two of those American Eagle renegades with that
> motor. I'm wondering if you did do anything with your engines. Have you
> located any parts sources? It would be nice to find some gasket sets, etc.
> Another guy just called me cuz he has one also. Talk about a niche
> interest!!!!
Hello Bob,
I cc'd this to the list as well as sending it to you - I think I just
saw a sub message from you for the list but I wanted to be sure.
Yes, I've still got them, haven't done anything more than pull off a
head and cylinder (found a broken piston skirt too) and gave them to
Craig to put on the flow bench when he had some time to spare from
making a living.
I'd be happy to find a parts source - as long as we can get one stock
gasket it can then be measured and material ordered to make more of
them. A photocopy of a parts/service manual would be handy too
should you find one.
I've got a Cycle Guide (I'm pretty sure that is the mag) road test on
the Renegade, and I'll see about putting it up on the web site later
this year.
Don't forget to look at the pictures on the web site that Marnix sent
me of the factor ISDT bikes .
Get the other guy on the net too.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:58:09 -0800
From: "..Steve Gurry"
Subject: Laverda RGS jetting
This problem with the machine bogging under full throttle, mainly at
low revs, is something that can be expected with all non-constant
velocity carbs. My well sorted 36mm Delorto pumps also catch my Jota off
guard at 3000rpm or less, when I throw-em back to the stops. Just give
the big girl [unless your bike happens to be a boy] a chance to clear
her throat from that stupid but I guess needed idle richness, and ease
yourself easily into her. Sorry guys, but all my bikes are girls.
Cheers, Steve
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 10:30:36 +0100
From: "Robert Milders"
Subject: Re[2]: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
Hello Jack,
No, K&Ns flow quite well, BUT as with all filters you have to get a
big enough one. It is similar to what Walter Kaaden at MZ said about
expansion chambers - he knew when the design was getting right when
it required the relocation of several major parts or couldn't be put
on the bike without dragging on the ground.
Some of the Dell'Orto plastic air straighteners came with this coarse
plastic mesh on them - it made a definite drop in flow on the flow
bench compared to the open stack, and the plastic Dell'Orto stacks
don't flow anywhere near as well as the spun aluminum Malossi items
do.
My 22mm Mikuni carb kit for my Honda 90 came with a cylindrical K&N
that had similar, or maybe even slightly greater, area to the the
K&Ns you'd often see fitted to four cylinder bikes that have junked
the airbox. Unoiled (or at least with just the light factory
coating) that size filter slightly restricted flow on the 22mm carb.
Now think what it will do on something with the cylinder 3X bigger.
I've noticed that some of the HD Sportster race bikes had huge K&N
filters on them - maybe 8-12" OD by 12" long. Those bikes obviously
had seen some dyno time.
I use K&Ns when I use filters. They last the lifetime of the vehicle
- - got one in my van too. The foam filters deteriorate with age.
Cheers,
Michael
Hi guys,
New on the list and I couldn't resist...
From experience I can add to Michael's comments. Several years ago, I
had my stock 500 bored up to 590cc, with bigger valves and the works.
Also fitted 38mm Dell'Ortos with beautifully polished aluminum air
straighteners. (I don't know what make they were) They were completely
open, I had already been told that the wiring would mess up the flow
too much.
After I had the engine back together again, it ran like a sick dog. It
was my luck that the Laverda Club Nederland organized a technical info
day at a dyno place soon after I got my bike on the road.
I had my Lav tied on the dyno that day and was amazed...
The first run showed holes in the power curve that confirmed that the
bike could hardly be ridden under 6000rpm. Top was something like
47bhp at 8000rpm.
The dyno guy apparently knew what he was doing and first thing he said
to me was; 'Get those air straighteners off'
Second run showed me that looks are not everything, and that
Dell'Ortos don't really need ornaments. Power was up to 49bhp now, but
more importantly, the dip in the power curve from 5000 to 6000rpm had
completely vanished! Mr. Dyno was still not happy, and proceeded to
fit K&Ns, rather big ones.
Third run was another surprise, because now the power curve looked
even smoother than before and power was up to 51bhp at 8000rpm and
didn't drop below 50bhp until 9000rpm where I had set the imaginary
red line. Theory behind this was that the filters created more
stability in the air flow, and less turbulence in the carb.
Some jetting followed and power increased to 53bhp. The 2 into 1
exhaust that I had fitted at the time was the main suspect of limiting
further power development, and a year later I had a 2 - 1 - 2 exhaust
made that increased power to 58bhp after another dyno session and some
jetting.
Modern examples of the importance of this subject are the Suzuki and
Yamaha engines that Bimota uses. Often, they are down on power
compared to the stock item, which is completely caused by having to
change the shape of the airbox to fit everything into their beautiful
frames.
Ciao,
Robert
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #25
****************************
laverda-digest Thursday, March 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 026
1. John Brennan Subj: Laverda Test - Dont Read!
2. "Michael Moore" Subj: Re: Re[2]: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
3. "Ann M. Calandro" <76726.2625@compuserve.com> Subj: Laverda Air filters
4. "Ann M. Calandro" <76726.2625@compuserve.com> Subj: Laverda Bimota air boxes
5. Martin Chudley Subj: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
6. Bill MacCracken Subj: Laverda Re: laverda air boxes ...plus
7. Bill MacCracken Subj: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #24
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:45:23 -0000
From: John Brennan
Subject: Laverda Test - Dont Read!
Let me in,
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 05:06:04 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
Hello Robert,
In his book on tuning the Mini car motors, David Vizard talks about
air straighteners, and there are definitely good and bad designs. It
looks like you got some of the latter.
Craig has noticed slight gains in power on the dyno by switching from
the plastic Dell'Orto units to the Malossi, as well as improved flow
on the flowbench.
It may also be that the tuned length you ended up with with the air
straighteners on was wrong for your bike.
An additional point is that it is possible to tune the intake by
having a reflective surface not far behind the end of the intake
tract. Varying the distance of the surface from the intake can
change when the pressure/acoustic wave is reflected back into the
intake, and thereby change the ram tuning effects. One engine
developer noted they were able to eliminate "standoff" in a tuned
engine (where a cloud of fuel stays just outside the end of the carb,
constantly enrichening the mixture) be getting a metal plate (or K&N
back panel) just the right distance away from the end of the carb.
Both bikes I've had dynoed have picked up 50-80% increases in
horsepower, mostly from ignition timing/carburetor tuning changes -
cheapest bhp you can get.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:29:17 -0500
From: "Ann M. Calandro" <76726.2625@compuserve.com>
Subject: Laverda Air filters
Michael writes
Subject: Laverda Bimota air boxes
Robert writes
< Modern examples of the importance of this subject are the Suzuki and
< Yamaha engines that Bimota uses. Often, they are down on power
< compared to the stock item, which is completely caused by having to
< change the shape of the airbox to fit everything into their beautiful
< frames.
I have a db2 with the Ducati 90 ss motor. When I first got it and was out
riding I found out that it would not pull past 7,000 rpm. I found this out
while passing a car and was very dissapointed when the motor stopped
pulling 2,000 rpm short and there was an on coming car! When I dug into it
I to try and rejet I found the very small air box as you described above.
The problem was more basic than the size of the air box. the opening faced
forward and was no bigger than a US quarter (25 cent piece). I took saw to
the front of the air boz and made a triangular opening about 3 inches on
each side and the problem went away. Pulls right to the rev limiter and is
a lot stronger than any stock 900 ss I have ridden.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:19:15 GMT
From: Martin Chudley
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
On Mar 18, 7:58pm, Michael Moore wrote:
> Subject: Re: Laverda RGS/RGA jetting
> > Wow! Something a simple as wire mesh screens have a detrimental effect on
> > airflow. Tell me, Michael, what do K&N's do to the flow? Equally bad?
> Some of the Dell'Orto plastic air straighteners came with this coarse
> plastic mesh on them - it made a definite drop in flow on the flow
> bench compared to the open stack, and the plastic Dell'Orto stacks
> don't flow anywhere near as well as the spun aluminum Malossi items
Malossi's are what I have, I'd forgotten the name when I posted originally.
I hope I can remove the mesh without too much brutality 'cos they weren't
cheap if I remember correctly and they are very pretty.
- --
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:07:06 -0800
From: Bill MacCracken
Subject: Laverda Re: laverda air boxes ...plus
<. My triple also bogs if I
give it full throttle and I was told, upon inquiry, by rather knowledgeable
folks that this was normal and that my rev's were simply too low at the
time for full throttle. This was at like 70 -75 mph!
I did two things to my RGS that helped this situation.
1) change from a 15 tooth front sprocket to a 16 tooth. I can't remember exactly
how many RPMs I gained (less than 500) but it put me in the power band sooner.
3500-4000 had me in the 70-75 MPH range as you mentioned and that's where the
power starts.
2) I had CC Products in San Jose CA run my bike on their Dyno to set up the carbs.
They made some general suggestions about jetting and I used them as a guide and
after the changes I didn't need to run "on choke" for ten minutes, I didn't foul
the plugs and the overall performance seemed better - I didn't follow up with a
second dyno run to see how much better.
The RGS performance is primarily enhanced by proper ignition setting THEN
carburation and valve adjustment is in there as well. In fact the valve clearances
should be checked first before any other adjustments are made. My approach is to
make changes slowly - one at a time- too many changes will cause backstepping to
find out where you messed up.
My jetting
item was is
mains 108 115
idle 65 68
slides 50/3 60/3 (not sure)
needles K1-mid I'll have to open 'er up
I believe the slides affect the mid range and the ones I used have a differnt
profile for the ramp that actuated the pumpers. The new slides delay the actuation
of the pumper until the throttle is opened more.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:14:45 -0800
From: Bill MacCracken
Subject: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #24
> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:00:25 -0800
> From: Stephen Wilcox
> Subject: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #23
>
> Bill wrote:
> > Jetting for the Stock 32mm carbs is:
> > main 108
> > idle 65
> > k1 needle at second notch
> > 50/3 slides
>
> Hmm. I guess "stock" has various interpretations. Your numbers look
> like a cross between numbers I've seen in a couple of places. I'm
> curious where they came from. Which triple were they "stock" for?
>
> Here are the numbers from my RGS parts book and a DelLorto factory
> tuning guide, plus what was in my bike when I got it and what I have
> now. ("when bought" = no airbox, factory 3-1, 7C cams, "now" = no
> airbox, Jota pipes, Axtel cams)
>
> RGS "Stock" Del'Orto My RGS My RGS
> (From parts manual) Recommendation When bought Now
> Main 125 108 132 125
> Idle 65 65 64* 70
> Starter 70 60 75 65
> Needle K1 K3 K4 K3 1st notch
> Slide 60/2 60/1 60/3 50/3
>
> * ??? Not sure where these jets came from, Del'Lorto does not list
> a 64 as an available size idle jet.
>
> Stephen Wilcox
>
> ------------------------------
>
The numbers came from the factory repair manual for the RGA/RGS.
I find it interesting that no RGS owners I have talked to have the same settings.
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #26
****************************
laverda-digest Thursday, March 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 027
1. smlnjack@toolcity.net Subj: Re: Laverda RGS jetting
2. Ed Lutz Subj: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
3. Ed Lutz Subj: Re: Laverda RGS jetting
4. Rick Hammond Subj: Re: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #24
5. "Michael Moore" Subj: Re: Laverda Air filters
6. LErkie4877 Subj: Laverda valve adjustment
7. "Michael Moore" Subj: Laverda getting archived digests
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:58:56 -0500
From: smlnjack@toolcity.net
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS jetting
At 09:58 PM 3/18/98 -0800, ..Steve Gurry wrote:
>This problem with the machine bogging under full throttle, mainly at
>low revs, is something that can be expected with all non-constant
>velocity carbs. My well sorted 36mm Delorto pumps also catch my Jota off
>guard at 3000rpm or less, when I throw-em back to the stops. Just give
>the big girl [unless your bike happens to be a boy] a chance to clear
>her throat from that stupid but I guess needed idle richness, and ease
>yourself easily into her. Sorry guys, but all my bikes are girls.
> Cheers, Steve
Well my can't be said to be a girl, but rather a hardened woman of the
world. That's why she goes by the name "Dominatrix".
Jack.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:23:01 -0800
From: Ed Lutz
Subject: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
At 09:59 PM 3/18/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>SFC1000 is higher spec on the brakes, better frame (lowers the engine
>compared to a Jota, for better handling), better forks.
A lower motor? That I hadn't heard, interesting. Any ground clearance
problems?
>Power is about the same, considerably smoother, maybe a touch more for an
>SFC, and you can rev another 500 -1,000 higher. Weight is about the same,
>sound - as loud!
Just as loud, but IMHO not as nice sounding with the Jota silencers. Guess
its a personal thing but I prefer my Executive with the quiet pipes and the
Jota to scream!
>I think you can fit tubeless tyres to the SFc wheels, but I never did.
>Anyone confirm this? If so, you may well get a far better choice of tyre
>compared to a Jota. Makes quite a difference.
Yes, I run tubeless tire on my Executive. The big plus here is the ease of
fixing a flat with a plug gun as opposed to pulling the wheel and changing
a tube! I also mounted tubeless on my 82' 180 Jota and the rear is holding
fine. The front is leaking out in about 48 hours but I haven't checked to
see where from yet.
I'd agree with Richard on this. Get the SFC. Its close enough to the
Executive in ride quality that I can tell you it makes a great long
distance machine, and hey, its a triple!
I do know where one is for sale, I'll get the info off to you asap.
Ed
****************************************************************************
1984 Laverda Executive
1982 Laverda Jota
Westminster, California
Of the gladdest moments in human life, methinks, is the departure upon a
distant journey into unknown lands.
Sir Richard Francis Burton
December 2, 1856
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:30:12 -0800
From: Ed Lutz
Subject: Re: Laverda RGS jetting
At 09:58 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote:
Snip>
Sorry guys, but all my bikes are girls.
> Cheers, Steve
>
Mine too, this way I can have a couple of mistresses to though a leg over
and my wife doesn't even care! Not much anyway.
Ed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:20:09 -0800
From: Rick Hammond
Subject: Re: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #24
Bill MacCracken wrote:
>
> > From: Stephen Wilcox
> > Bill wrote:
> > Here are the numbers from my RGS parts book and a DelLorto factory
> > tuning guide,
> > Stephen Wilcox
> >
> > ------------------------------Steven, or anyone else,
Is that Del'Orto tuning guide specific to the triples?
I have 32mm PHF carbs on my 860 and I may end up with them on the SF.
Does anybody have numbers etc. for that application? (including the
Ducati)
Thanks, (BTW; hear about the Triumph owner that had to check his jets
every day? The bike was fine, he was just amal retentive)
Cheers,
Rick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:18:19 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Re: Laverda Air filters
> Do you know of any set up that is available to do this or is this a roll
> your own project? I have the three relatively small K&N filters and no air
> box.
Hello Jim,
I'd bet that you will have to fab it yourself. There should be
plenty of fun to allow you to share some with the whole family.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:51:43 EST
From: LErkie4877
Subject: Laverda valve adjustment
Hello Laverdaphiles:
Someone recently stated that to arrive at the necessary valve lash dimension,
the shims can be reduced in size by sanding them on emery cloth against a
piece of glass. My question is, at what point do you get into trouble with
this "shade tree mechanics" approach? The factory shim sets' smallest size is
about 1.75mm, as I recall. If one cuts it down, how thin is too thin? Have
there been instances of the triples spitting their shims that could be
attributed to undersized shims? Some other type of shim/valvetrain failure?
Bonus question: Do Ducati shims fit old Laverda triples?
TIA,
Lawrence
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:13:02 -0800
From: "Michael Moore"
Subject: Laverda getting archived digests
Since I'm not having much luck with keeping current on posting old
digests to the web site, here is how you can get them direct from my
ISP. I think you'll have to be a subscriber to the -digest mode of
the list to be able to get them. I will be trying to update the
digests on the web site, but it will be a while before that happens.
You will send your request to:
majordomo@list.sirius.com
majordomo commands
help This returns the majordomo help file, which is similar to this
document.
end Tells majordomo to ignore the rest of your message (useful if
your mail software adds a signature to the end of your messages.)
index listname Return an index of files you can "get" from the
named list. You may have to be subscribed to the list before you can
get an index.
get listname filename Get a file from the named list. You
probably have to be subscribed to the list before you can get files
from it.
So if you want a list of the mc-chassis-design-digest filenames, you'd
send a message to majordomo saying:
index mc-chassis-design-digest
The reply would be a list starting off something like this:
total 7528
- -rw-rw-r-- 1 majordom majordom 16213 Apr 1 1997 v01.n001
- -rw-rw-r-- 1 majordom majordom 31368 Apr 2 1997 v01.n002
To then request a particular digest you'd send a message saying:
get mc-chassis-design-digest v01.n002
I think you can request multiple files in one message as long as each
"get" command and file is on a different line, but I'm not sure about
that.
This won't be as conducive to browsing as the stuff on the website,
but at least it will make the digests I don't have posted available.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Moore
Euro Spares, SF CA
Distributor of Lucas RITA and Powerbase products
Sole North American distributor of "The Racing Motorcycle: a technical guide for constructors"
Host of 6 m/c email lists (details on the web site)
http://www.eurospares.com
AFM/AHRMA #364
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #27
****************************
laverda-digest Friday, March 20 1998 Volume 01 : Number 028
1. Bill MacCracken Subj: Re:Laverda Valve Adjustment
2. "..Steve Gurry" Subj: Laverda Shadetree mechanic
3. Henry Willms Subj: Laverda new subscriber - needs mufflers
4. "Robert Milders" Subj: Laverda intro
5. thumper@hughes.net Subj: Laverdas Only: praise, comment, complaints
6. thumper@hughes.net Subj: Re: Laverda new subscriber - needs mufflers
7. Ed Lutz Subj: Re: Laverdas Only: praise, comment, complaints
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:15:05 -0800
From: Bill MacCracken
Subject: Re:Laverda Valve Adjustment
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:51:43 EST
From: LErkie4877
Subject: Laverda valve adjustment
Hello Laverdaphiles:
Someone recently stated that to arrive at the necessary valve lash
dimension,
the shims can be reduced in size by sanding them on emery cloth against
a
piece of glass. My question is, at what point do you get into trouble
with
this "shade tree mechanics" approach?
It's like when I cut a 2X4 "I cut three times and it's still too short"
The factory shim sets' smallest size is
about 1.75mm, as I recall. If one cuts it down, how thin is too thin?
1.75 mm is about .069 inches. I can't recomend how thin is too thin but
there are also thicker buckets available ... cha-ching.
Have
there been instances of the triples spitting their shims that could be
attributed to undersized shims? Some other type of shim/valvetrain
failure?
Bonus question: Do Ducati shims fit old Laverda triples?
NONONONONONO!!! that's my immediate response for RGS triples anyway. On
the first service my dealer put a Ducati shim in and at about 9000 miles
the bucket on that position decided to break down and take the cam with
it.
TIA,
Lawrence
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:38:26 -0800
From: "..Steve Gurry"
Subject: Laverda Shadetree mechanic
Hello All,
Lawrence's point about the minimum cap shim thickness is a good one.
Cap shims are available starting at 2.60mm, and ranging down to 1.85mm.
A 1.85 shim is simply a 2.60 ground down, so nothing is being
compromized. But if your engine cams require a shim less than 1.85mm, I
feel it may be an indication that your valve seats may need to be
attended to. I have no indication in my detailed specification as to the
maximum deck to valve stem measurement, but if the smallest shim is a
1.85mm, well, one may safely assume there is a good reason.
Last time I saw Shadetree mechanic on Tnn, those guys did'nt seem to
screw up badly, although they were just working on an old Pinto, so if
they were to really screw up, the worst that could happen would be that
it ran great.
CIAO Steve G.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:39:57 -0500
From: Henry Willms
Subject: Laverda new subscriber - needs mufflers
Just joined the list from up here in Canada. I own a '74 SFC and just bought a
'85 RGS Corsa. The SFC is restored, but I drive it. Plan to use the RGS for
longer trips and to accomodate the co-pilot when she is so inclined. Due to 2
feet of snow in Winnipeg I have not ridden it yet, but expect it to be similar
to a 1000SFC I had in Eurpope back in th eightees.
I need to replace the stock mufflers on the RGS, they are rusty and ugly. Any
recommendations on after market systems? I have put K&N's on, otherwize stock
Corsa motor.
Thanks,
.
Henry Willms
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 16:21:14 +0100
From: "Robert Milders"
Subject: Laverda intro
Even though I already commented on the K&N filter/air straightener
discussions, as a new member of this exclusive Laverda circle, I'll
give an introduction of myself:
My name is Robert Milders, I was born in the Netherlands and that's
where I can still be found.
My bikes are a modified 1980 Laverda 500 (and a spare 600 engine), a
1971 750SF BotT racer (840cc) and a 1987(?) Laverda OR 600 Atlas that
I use daily. I have owned a 1200 TS for a while, but after the pistons
melted and I didn't have time nor money to repair the thing, the
(broken) beast was swapped for the (perfect condition) Atlas. Sorry to
all you triple addicts, but I have no regrets about that swap. The
triple engines are truly great, but I feel the bikes are too heavy to
suit my riding style. On top of that, the OR 600 Atlas is probably the
ugliest, but also the most underrated Laverda ever.
To prevent me from getting bored, I also act as the treasurer,
internet point of contact and race coordinator for the Laverda Club
Nederland and try to do some racing on the SF.
Ciao!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:32:29 -0800
From: thumper@hughes.net
Subject: Laverdas Only: praise, comment, complaints
Was wondering if anyone had any experience with this shop. I know that
they have been through some changes in the last few years, moving, in
hiatis, etc. Curious as to price vs quality, customer satisfaction
success of advice etc.
I had them do some work for me about 5 yrs. ago, and was generally
happy, but have also heard from others that their experiences were not
so satisfactory. I am within 100 miles and would like to have a "good"
mechanic available if needed.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:26:10 -0800
From: thumper@hughes.net
Subject: Re: Laverda new subscriber - needs mufflers
Henry Willms wrote:
>
> Just joined the list from up here in Canada. I own a '74 SFC and just bought a
> '85 RGS Corsa. The SFC is restored, but I drive it. Plan to use the RGS for
> longer trips and to accomodate the co-pilot when she is so inclined. Due to 2
> feet of snow in Winnipeg I have not ridden it yet, but expect it to be similar
> to a 1000SFC I had in Eurpope back in th eightees.
>
> I need to replace the stock mufflers on the RGS, they are rusty and ugly. Any
> recommendations on after market systems? I have put K&N's on, otherwize stock
> Corsa motor.
>
> Thanks,
> .
> Henry Willms
> Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
I have been told {by Lance @ Laverdas Only, consider the source,] that
Bub mufflers ars not too good. Said that there was too much backpressure
for full power.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:36:01 -0800
From: Ed Lutz
Subject: Re: Laverdas Only: praise, comment, complaints
I have had excellent results working with Lance. His prices can be a bit
high but he usually has what I want and is a wealth of knowledge. Perhaps a
bit eccentric? But anybody who lives the Laverda life probably is. So far
Lance has never steered me wrong and his ideas have been spot on. I do
pretty much all the mechanical work on my bike and go to Lance for parts
and technical help. I did have him do a valve job on my Executive head last
summer and he did an excellent job.
Ed
Your withing 100 miles of his shop? Where do you live, I'm south of him
around Huntington Beach.
At 07:32 AM 3/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Was wondering if anyone had any experience with this shop. I know that
>they have been through some changes in the last few years, moving, in
>hiatis, etc. Curious as to price vs quality, customer satisfaction
>success of advice etc.
>I had them do some work for me about 5 yrs. ago, and was generally
>happy, but have also heard from others that their experiences were not
>so satisfactory. I am within 100 miles and would like to have a "good"
>mechanic available if needed.
>
>
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #28
****************************
laverda-digest Saturday, March 21 1998 Volume 01 : Number 029
1. Stephen Wilcox Subj: Laverda Re: RGS jetting
2. Stephen Wilcox Subj: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #26
3. zottel@bbs.bybyte.de (Zottel) Subj: Laverda LAVERDA RGS/RGA JETT
4. zottel@bbs.bybyte.de (Zottel) Subj: Laverda RE: LAVERDA RGS/RGA JETTI
5. thumper@hughes.net Subj: Re: Laverdas Only: praise, comment, complaints
6. Ed Lutz Subj: Re: Laverdas Only: praise, comment, complaints
7. Ed Lutz Subj: Re: Laverda RE: LAVERDA RGS/RGA JETTI
8. Richard Taylor Subj: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:08:08 -0800
From: Stephen Wilcox
Subject: Laverda Re: RGS jetting
> > > Stephen Wilcox
> > >
> > > ------------------------------Steven, or anyone else,
> Is that Del'Orto tuning guide specific to the triples?
No. It was their recommended starting point, from which they
suggest you experiment to find the correct jetting for a
specific application. I'm still puzzled by Bill's numbers
he said were from the RGS repair manual. I could not find any
in my copy, and they were slightly different from the ones in
the RGS parts manual. I'll have to look again.
Stephen Wilcox
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:00:30 -0800
From: Stephen Wilcox
Subject: Laverda Re: laverda-digest V1 #26
> My jetting
> item was is
> slides 50/3 60/3 (not sure)
...
> I believe the slides affect the mid range and the ones I used have a differnt
> profile for the ramp that actuated the pumpers. The new slides delay the actuation
> of the pumper until the throttle is opened more.
I thought the first number (ie 50 or 60) was the cutaway in
1/10ths mm, ie 5 or 6 mm cutaway, and the second number ( /3)
was the ramp profile. In that case the 60/3 has the same ramp
but more cutaway (leaner? at small throttle openings) than the
50/3.
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:06:00 GMT
From: zottel@bbs.bybyte.de (Zottel)
Subject: Laverda LAVERDA RGS/RGA JETT
> > I suspect this is the problem I have with my Mirage/Harris. All it has
> > in the way of filtration is 3 very short pretty aluminium bellmouths with
> > coarse gauge mesh over their openings.
> Ditch the coarse screens - they don't do the airflow any good when
> tested on the flow bench, and the occasional small bug should go
> straight through the engine without damage.
Actually the screens are not to keep small birds out, but to keep
the flames in when the bike backfires, right?
Bye
Chris
- ---
_ RM 1.31 3336 _
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:40:00 GMT
From: zottel@bbs.bybyte.de (Zottel)
Subject: Laverda RE: LAVERDA RGS/RGA JETTI
> Modern examples of the importance of this subject are the Suzuki and
> Yamaha engines that Bimota uses. Often, they are down on power
> compared to the stock item, which is completely caused by having to
> change the shape of the airbox to fit everything into their beautiful
> frames.
Richard Slater told me that after much testing they raced their
triples with the airbox, sans filter. Apparently the original box
is not such a crummy design after all.
Bye
Chris Rein
- ---
_ RM 1.31 3336 _
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:32:11 -0800
From: thumper@hughes.net
Subject: Re: Laverdas Only: praise, comment, complaints
Ed Lutz wrote:
>
> I have had excellent results working with Lance. His prices can be a bit
> high but he usually has what I want and is a wealth of knowledge. Perhaps a
> bit eccentric? But anybody who lives the Laverda life probably is. So far
> Lance has never steered me wrong and his ideas have been spot on. I do
> pretty much all the mechanical work on my bike and go to Lance for parts
> and technical help. I did have him do a valve job on my Executive head last
> summer and he did an excellent job.
>
> Ed
> Your withing 100 miles of his shop? Where do you live, I'm south of him
> around Huntington Beach.
>
> At 07:32 AM 3/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >Was wondering if anyone had any experience with this shop. I know that
> >they have been through some changes in the last few years, moving, in
> >hiatis, etc. Curious as to price vs quality, customer satisfaction
> >success of advice etc.
> >I had them do some work for me about 5 yrs. ago, and was generally
> >happy, but have also heard from others that their experiences were not
> >so satisfactory. I am within 100 miles and would like to have a "good"
> >mechanic available if needed.
> >
> >
Ed, I live in Palmdale, I'll be at the Garage Co. AHRMA meet in May at
the Computrack booth if you want to stop by.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:18:45 -0800
From: Ed Lutz
Subject: Re: Laverdas Only: praise, comment, complaints
At 06:32 PM 3/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Ed, I live in Palmdale, I'll be at the Garage Co. AHRMA meet in May at
>the Computrack booth if you want to stop by.
I was going to try and make that event this year. Usually cant cause its
been the same weekend as the Long Beach GP and I work at the track every
year. Hopefully I'll be able to ride up and I'll look for you.
Ed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:18:47 -0800
From: Ed Lutz
Subject: Re: Laverda RE: LAVERDA RGS/RGA JETTI
At 12:40 AM 3/21/98 GMT, you wrote:
>Richard Slater told me that after much testing they raced their
>triples with the airbox, sans filter. Apparently the original box
>is not such a crummy design after all.
>
>Bye
>
>Chris Rein
Yeah his brother Roger told me the same thing. Too bad I don't have the
original airbox from my Jota anymore.
Ed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:59:43 +0000
From: Richard Taylor
Subject: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
At 09:23 19/03/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 09:59 PM 3/18/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>>SFC1000 is higher spec on the brakes, better frame (lowers the engine
>>compared to a Jota, for better handling), better forks.
>
>A lower motor? That I hadn't heard, interesting. Any ground clearance
>problems?
No, they slightly re-arranged late 180s, and the 120s to have a balanced
'overhang' at either end of the crank. I never grounded mine, but then I'm
no speed freak! It definitely handled much better than a Mirage though...
- --
Regards, Richard Taylor. International Laverda Owners Club -
http://www.richtea.demon.co.uk/laverda
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #29
****************************
laverda-digest Saturday, March 21 1998 Volume 01 : Number 030
1. JRSbike Subj: Re: Laverda Bimota air boxes/Ducati 900ss
2. PRUSNEK Subj: Laverda Introduction
3. "Ann M. Calandro" <76726.2625@compuserve.com> Subj: Laverda to Tubeless or not to tubeless
4. Peter Subj: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
5. "Barry I. Thorp" Subj: Re: Laverda to Tubeless or not to tubeless
6. Ed Lutz Subj: Re: Laverda to Tubeless or not to tubeless
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:59:36 EST
From: JRSbike
Subject: Re: Laverda Bimota air boxes/Ducati 900ss
Three must do items to a two valve Ducati 900 motor:
1. K&N air filter kit
2. Dyno jet kit
3. Drop two teeth on the rear sproket
You will have a new motorcycle. Come to Loudon for a track day and ride mine.
You will believe ! Also a race compound DOT Dunlop does wonders for the front
end.
Regards, John
USCRA NO. 95/Laverda 750RR
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:34:01 -0500
From: PRUSNEK
Subject: Laverda Introduction
Hello!
I figured it was time to introduce myself,
and to thank Mike for getting this list together. I sure could have used
this forum last year when I was restoring the SF1...
Which reminds me of a great motorcycle acquisition
story. A lady across the street from where I used to live as a kid was
going through a divorce, the object of her wrath having a garage full of
old bikes. Being the helpful sort of fellow that I am, I volunteered to
help her 'wash those bikes right out of her hair', and remove the offending
vehicles that hold only bad memories for her. (I'm in sales, incidentally)
What came out of the garage were 2
'60's Honda 160's, a Benelli 'buzzer', a Moto Guzzi Ambassador, and the
'73 SF1. And a snowblower thrown in for good measure. All it needed was
a new plug and ran fine. The bikes were another story. They had all sat
in an unheated leaky garage for 15 years, and had been mostly disassembled,
with the parts pretty well mixed up.Some of the parts that I never used
came off of a Honda Gold Wing. Anyone out there need a rear wheel/tire,
engine guards and seat? I had never seen a Guzzi up close for more
than 15 minutes and had barely heard of Laverda. Without going into too
much detail, I got the Guzzi up and running, then tore it apart for a frame
up resto. All the time I'm looking at this rusted hulk of a Laverda, frozen
engine,crashed front end, no rear wheel,tank, or sheet metal, and thinking
that at least I could part it out. After doing some research on it, it
seemed like (as you all know already) a pretty neat machine. After a years'
worth of searching for parts, wrenching, and peering at pictures to see
how they fit together, I got it out on the road and have been having a
ball with it ever since.I love the powerband; it's a hard bike to drive
slowly. My regular ride (a '68 Harley) has been sitting idle.
That's about it for me... I do have a question,
though. Are there any fine points to adjusting the main drive chain other
than what's in the manual. I've been told to try it when the engine's running
and listen for something.
All of this talk about air filters has me
wanting to replace the rusty piece of junk that I'm running now. A bloke
in Australia says that he'll hunt around in his garage for one but I've
heard nothing since. Anyone out there got a new one ('73SF1) that they're
willing to sell? I'd surely appreciate it.
Thanks
John Prusnek
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:44:12 -0500
From: "Ann M. Calandro" <76726.2625@compuserve.com>
Subject: Laverda to Tubeless or not to tubeless
Hey Y'all
I was out in the garage changing the rear tire on my 1984 RGS when I
discovered the inner tube has a small hole at the valve stem. I was going
to try and find an inner tube when I remembered some one saying they run
their rims tubeless. I have the cast wheels that say Laverda on them but
look just like the Ducati counter parts from the same vintage. The are WM4
2.5x18 and are in good shape.
My question is should I just get a valve stem or should I opt for an inner
tube?
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:12:59 +0100
From: Peter
Subject: Re: Laverda Goin on safari
Richard Taylor wrote:
>
> At 09:23 19/03/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >At 09:59 PM 3/18/98 +0000, you wrote:
> >>
> >>SFC1000 is higher spec on the brakes, better frame (lowers the engine
> >>compared to a Jota, for better handling), better forks.
> >
> >A lower motor? That I hadn't heard, interesting. Any ground clearance
> >problems?
>
> No, they slightly re-arranged late 180s, and the 120s to have a balanced
> 'overhang' at either end of the crank. I never grounded mine, but then I'm
> no speed freak! It definitely handled much better than a Mirage though...
>
> --
> Regards, Richard Taylor. International Laverda Owners Club -
> http://www.richtea.demon.co.uk/laverda
Take a look at the angle you'd need to be on in order to ground it,
we're not talking speed freak, we're talking suicidal here!
A tutto gas!
Peter
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:29:01 -0800
From: "Barry I. Thorp"
Subject: Re: Laverda to Tubeless or not to tubeless
On 21 Mar 98 at 16:44, Ann M. Calandro wrote:
> Hey Y'all
>
> I was out in the garage changing the rear tire on my 1984 RGS when I
> discovered the inner tube has a small hole at the valve stem. I was
> going to try and find an inner tube when I remembered some one
> saying they run their rims tubeless. I have the cast wheels that
> say Laverda on them but look just like the Ducati counter parts from
> the same vintage. The are WM4 2.5x18 and are in good shape.
>
> My question is should I just get a valve stem or should I opt for an
> inner tube?
Hi;
If it doesn't say "Tubeless" or some such somewhere on the rim
and have an extra ridge inside the bead it could be very risky if
your tire goes down. It also may not hold air very well. Good luck.
- --
It's just two wheels and me and the wind in my eyes and the
engine is the music
- Adam Yauch
Barry I. Thorp BIT Computer Consulting Victoria, BC
mailto:bthorp@islandnet.com http://www.islandnet.com/~bthorp/Personal.htm
(tired old computer geek with deviant gearhead tendencies)
1997 Red TL1000S #936 S-TRA #936
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 18:09:29 -0800
From: Ed Lutz
Subject: Re: Laverda to Tubeless or not to tubeless
Well, heres what the guy at my local motorcycle specialty shop told me, and
what I did with mine.
I was getting new tires on my '84 Executive and wanted to go tubeless. I
had seen another '84 Executive running tubeless with no apparent problems.
I asked the guy at the tire shop and he said that usually when they do a
conversion all is OK (he'd done other bikes but never a Laverda). Only
problem is that the lack of a tire retention bead will allow the tire to
come off the rim during a flat. Sometimes he said the rim wont seal
properly and a tube is needed. Some cast wheels are porous and leak through
the casting. He was concerned about the valve stem since the rim isn't flat
where the stem would need to be sealed. The other guy I know with tubeless
tires on his Executive had the area around the stem machined flat for a
better seal.
On my wheels he ended up using a stem with a very thick sealing washer and
some silicone seal for good measure. Both rims seal and hold air at least
as well as any tube I've ever had. No complaints and fixing a flat is much
easier since I don't have to pull the tire, just pop in a plug.
I had the same thing done on my '82 Jota wheels and the front one leaks a
bit. Rear is sealed just fine.
As to the rim design and lack of a retention bead? If you have a moving
flat you may experience the tire coming off the rim. This is, as you can
imagine a really bad thing. I would expect the same thing can happen with
a flat on a tube type setup since there's nothing holding the tire on when
its empty either.
Your choice Jim. If you go tubeless and have a problem don't say you
were'nt warned. That said, I like mine tubeless and have had no problems.
Ed
At 02:29 PM 3/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>On 21 Mar 98 at 16:44, Ann M. Calandro wrote:
>
>> Hey Y'all
>>
>> I was out in the garage changing the rear tire on my 1984 RGS when I
>> discovered the inner tube has a small hole at the valve stem. I was
>> going to try and find an inner tube when I remembered some one
>> saying they run their rims tubeless. I have the cast wheels that
>> say Laverda on them but look just like the Ducati counter parts from
>> the same vintage. The are WM4 2.5x18 and are in good shape.
>>
>> My question is should I just get a valve stem or should I opt for an
>> inner tube?
>
>Hi;
> If it doesn't say "Tubeless" or some such somewhere on the rim
>and have an extra ridge inside the bead it could be very risky if
>your tire goes down. It also may not hold air very well. Good luck.
>--
> It's just two wheels and me and the wind in my eyes and the
> engine is the music
> - Adam Yauch
>
> Barry I. Thorp BIT Computer Consulting Victoria, BC
> mailto:bthorp@islandnet.com http://www.islandnet.com/~bthorp/Personal.htm
> (tired old computer geek with deviant gearhead tendencies)
> 1997 Red TL1000S #936 S-TRA #936
>
------------------------------
End of laverda-digest V1 #30
****************************
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